Seize ownership of your life, prioritize what truly matters to you, and bravely embark on the journey that may initially seem daunting—because it's that very first step that paves the way to a more gratifying existence. In this compelling episode, Sofie de Vreese, Head of Strategy and Partnerships for APAC at Expensify, unveils her odyssey of self-discovery, challenging ingrained beliefs to forge a path of authenticity. The pivotal questions you pose to yourself serve as a gateway to unveiling your genuine self. Sofie's insightful approach guides you in dismantling barriers and amplifying your self-listening. Tune in to this episode, join Sofie, and chart your course toward authenticity. Let's shatter limiting beliefs and wholeheartedly embrace our true selves.

We are honored that Expensify sponsored this episode. Expensify is a payment super-app that helps individuals and businesses simplify the way they manage money. More than 12 million people use Expensify’s free features, which include corporate cards, expense tracking, next-day reimbursement, invoicing, bill pay, global reimbursement, and travel booking, all in one app.

To learn more about how Expensify can help save you time to focus on what really matters, check out use.expensify.com/spend-management.

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Watch the episode here

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The Path Of Observation To Understand Who You Truly Are With Sofie de Vreese

In this episode, I interviewed Sofie de Vreese. She joined Expensify in 2018 and manages all things strategy and partnerships in the APAC. A true generalist, Sofie advances Expensify's initiatives in pre-accounting through product development and strategic initiatives. She combines that with her love for people development by mentoring a number of people within Expensify. In her free time, Sofie enjoys a balance between collecting medals at fun runs, playing golf, practicing mindfulness through yoga nidra, and making her own jewelry.

During this interview, we talked about her path and journey of self-discovery and breaking these beliefs that might have been holding her back, but were creating some negative self-talk for her that led her to burnout at times so that she could live a life of authenticity. We are honored that Expensify sponsored this episode. Expensify is a payment super app that helps individuals and businesses simplify the way they manage money.

More than twelve million people use Expensify's free features, which include corporate cards, expense tracking, next-day reimbursements, invoicing, bill pay, global reimbursement, travel, and booking all in one app. To learn more about Expensify which can help you save time and focus on what matters, check out Use.Expensify.com/spendmanagement.

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I'm excited to be here today with Sofie de Vreese. She is from Expensify. Sofie, to get started, do you want to talk about your role at Expensify?

Thank you so much for having me here. I'm very excited. My name is Sofie. I work as a Head of Partnerships for Expensify based out of Melbourne, Australia. I'm primarily focused on anything partnerships and strategy mainly in the APAC region. I worked together with firms all across Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, and Hong Kong. I also worked together with quite a few firms on the West Coast, in the US. I tend to travel quite a bit. It takes me all over the world. I'm quite involved in key decisions and helping shape the company that is Expensify.

Sofie de Vreese And Her Role Model

I’m glad to have you here. We always begin with your life story, getting to know a little bit about your background, and also, to educate our readers about Melbourne or Australia where you're at which would be awesome. I visited a few times with my roles prior. Where did you grow up and what did your parents do?

As most readers can probably tell, my accent is not Australian. I've tried so hard. I'm not there. I'm from the Netherlands originally. I'm Dutch. I grew up in this lovely medium-sized town called Delft. It’s quite touristy. I tend to call it the small version of Amsterdam. It's beautiful with the canals. I grew up living quite a happy life. I grew up together with a single mother, a full-time working mother who served a great role and was a great example.

For the first eight years or so of my life, we lived together with my grandmother. My grandmother was responsible for the school pickups, the drop-offs, getting me to ballet class, and all that. I look back to my childhood with gratefulness. I have a lovely extended family. I grew up with lots of uncles and aunts. I remember all the summer holidays that we drove down to the South of France and they'd all come over with their caravan or their tents. We'd camp out. It was good memories. I have nothing but good memories there and then you grow up.

What did your mom do? You said she worked full-time.

Yes, she did. My mom's quite an interesting one. My mom started off in HR and through hard work and dedication, the ranks in a way. She ended up as the CEO of the largest student housing company in the Netherlands. A couple of years ago, I asked her. I said, “What made you tick? What made you think, I'm going to do this. This is where I want to get.” She said, “There's one thing to it. It's passion.” I grew up in the late '80s and early '90s.

At the time, there weren't that many full-time working mothers like my mother. Most of my friends had mothers who either worked part-time or full-time stay-at-home moms, which is no problem. I was quite alone in that way where my mom worked a full-time job. I don't know how she juggled it all. I generally don't know because I never felt like I was missing out on anything. She was always there when it mattered.

I also think there's something about that role model because I still remember. It was a bit of a tradition. Every Friday afternoon, I pick her up from work and just walk into the offices, seeing how loved she was, and the respect that people in the company had for her. It's a fantastic role model. I feel quite blessed to have had that role model in my life. Again, nothing but love for my mother. I don’t know how she juggled it. I'm pretty sure there have been sleepless nights and her thinking to herself like, “How am I going to do this working 50 hours a week and having a child,” but she did it. She pulled it off. We have a fantastic relationship. We still do.

Why do you think people respected your mom the way that you did having that observation because that's from a child's perspective? There must been something you were seeing or an example of at that time.

I think a couple of things. I think part of it is the industry that my mom was in. Student housing is real estate and property development at the time and it still is but it's a very male-dominated space. For a female to have that influence eventually because my mom ended up managing one of the offices, then became the COO, and eventually became the CEO. She did that for quite a few years until she retired last year. I think part of it is having that example to other people in the company that if you can, you will. You always say, “If you believe you can, you will.” I think that's the case here.

Part of it's that, and I think the other part of it is my mom, and that's something that I see as an example. I try to take them as well but my mom had equal parts of having to make the tough decisions and she'd put her mind to it. She'd make those tough decisions. If it's in the best of the company, she would but there was this immense empathy as well. A couple of years ago, I was getting to a point where I had to do the tougher talks within the company as well. If at some stage you feel like it's not working out with employees or fortunately, you get to the point in time where it's the last thing you want. Sometimes you do have to have those conversations with employees.

I remember talking to my mom for advice and she said, “It doesn't get any easier. You've got to switch off that emotional side, but also have the empathy that sometimes it's in the other person's best interest even though they don't know that at that point in time.” Sometimes it is for the best. Sometimes people would look at my mom and go, “She's a tough nut,” but there was so much heart and empathy in there. Everything she did, and every decision she made was in the company's best interest. I think those are the two things that people respect because they could see that.

I talked to a lot of women's groups and there's a difference in generations of women in leadership because when there were very few women in leadership, they felt they had to model being a man versus still keeping the compassionate side of a woman leadership because it was hard to be able to fight for your spot at that time. Also, what the example is that we need to give now? It's pretty amazing she was able to do that during that time period.

I also think what you're talking about, and I think this is the hard part is the difference between emotion and empathy. Empathy isn't that you're not feeling something, but you're not pitting someone. You're still alongside them knowing that this was the best thing, but someone doesn't feel like that. Not being taken down with that because if you are, then you get down the rabbit hole too.

I've been down that rabbit hole and you learn that there's that distinct difference. For all parties involved, it's best to be aware of that nuance, and empathy. Emotional, that's not the time and place. Switch it off and take it home if you need to. Unpack it at home, but don't give in to it at that point in time.

What do you think taught your mom to be that way?

We’re going to go back quite a bit. There's a bit of context there. My mom also grew up with a single mother. My grandmother was an interesting one. My grandmother would've loved to live a different life, I suppose. She loved opera and growing up, she was always singing along to these beautiful arias. She would've loved to live a life like Maria Callas, a famous opera singer but my grandmother was also deeply unhappy and immensely irresponsible with money. That's an important context.

Also, because of that, my mother had to grow up pretty quickly. It wasn't all doom and gloom. When you ask my mother, she says, “I lived a wonderful life. I had a great childhood with lots of great memories, but she was pushed into adulthood quite quickly because she had to. It’s because my grandmother didn't have that responsibility.

I think part of it is the way you grow up. You learn and you take on those behaviors but part of it as well is perhaps nature versus nurture, I don't know but perhaps it's also genetics because even though my mother didn't grow up with her biological father, apparently her biological father was quite a well-respected and successful businessman. He owned one of the largest wharves in the Netherlands. That could also be it.

Nature Versus Nurture

Whenever my grandma would get frustrated with my mother, she'd often say, “You're like your father.” It was quite an insult to my mother because she didn't know her father. “What does that mean?” I think it's probably twofold. I have a great interest in the concept of nurture versus nature. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that as well but it could be either of those.

I absolutely agree with that because you have to have the base foundation of it, but then it can be nurtured. If there's not at least the base foundation, it's hard to nurture it. I have two boys that are amazing and people will say all the time, “You did such a good job.” I'm like, “They came with good stuff.” I was working with good stuff so it was a team effort versus where I think people will give all the credit to one situation or a parent or whatever. I look at them and I'm like, “They responded and lived up to expectations.” Not even just expectations, but have a deeper understanding of context if you'd explain it. Some people are not born that way and it's harder to get that point across.

As you said, I am using a bit of an analogy here, but I think of painting for instance, and trying to paint this beautiful oil painting. However, if the oil paints that you're using aren’t high enough quality, then you're probably not going to get the end result that you're after. I do think. Sometimes I try to view nurture person's nature that way. When I look at my mom and I, I also think that even though I was perhaps born with a good foundation, I feel quite privileged with that. I grew up having this good role model. The best role model I ever could have possibly wanted.

I think it also comes with a bit of a flip side. I always think every positive always has a bit of a flip side. Also, it’s the immense pressure that I put on myself because my entire family would say, “You're just like your mother. Even your voice is the same.” I did this internship in the same industry and it's student housing in the Netherlands. It's a very small world. People would often say, “You remind me so much of your mother.”

When you keep hearing that over and over again, you start believing it. I expect to follow in her footsteps in a way. I started to define myself in that way as well. When I look at the next years of my life, after I finished high school, I let that define my path and my identity because my mother, for instance, always wanted to study law. Again, because of her childhood and growing up, she was thrust into work immediately. She didn't have the luxury to go to university because she had to take care of my grandmother in a way.

Eventually, she did. Over time, she added in plenty of education, but she didn't go through the classic you turn 17, 18 and you go to university. She was never able to do that. I think in a way she perhaps tried to live through me as well, unintentionally but my mom always wanted to study law. I was like, “I'm going to study law.” The reason I decided to study Dutch law, is probably the driest form out there. It's awful but the reality is I wanted to become a chef.

My dream at that time, I was 16, 17, 18 and it was this pretty elite they called the Hague Hotel Management School. It's the school where every three-star Michelin chef went to that particular school. Every restaurateur went to that particular school and that's what I wanted to do. However, my family, not just my mother, but my entire family was like, “Sofie, you'll never have a social life. Don't do it.” They tried to talk me out of it. When that was out of the equation, I defaulted back to our law because we'll do that. I hated it. I gave it a year and I just wouldn’t. I became quite depressed.

I was a very happy-go-lucky kid up until that point in time. That was a rough year but my mom understood. Also, she did give me the freedom to be myself. We had a good chat. She said, “I can see how miserable you are. Let's get you out and give you a bit of time. I spent about half a year between February and September until the next intake working. I moved to Amsterdam, and that's where I studied organizational communication. I lived for a couple of years in Amsterdam. I loved it. I crawled out of that dark head space that I was in.

I think through that exercise I started to better understand who I am as a person and separate my mom from it. As part of finishing my studies, I had to do an internship as well. I ended up in that same industry and I got sucked back into it. When I finished uni, the company that I was at loved me and said, “We want you to stay,” but it was also student accommodation. I ended up as a portfolio manager. I worked together with universities in setting up partnerships.

There's a trend there but people kept likening me to my mom. At that point, I was about 25. If you'd asked me at that point in time, “What will your next twenty years look like?” I probably would've painted a picture of something similar to my mom. I’ll work my way up. I'll probably have kids at some stage, but I'll work full-time because that's what I love. I carbon-copied to my mom's path onto my path. It's almost like a Sliding Doors effect. Through work, I ended up meeting my now husband.

It’s like a good movie. I was thinking about that. I was like, “That's one of those movies that so few people know about, but stays in your head forever.

Take away from this episode. People, please go watch that movie.

Go watch Sliding Doors. It's so good.

Sliding Doors

I don't feel like it, but it's timeless. The gist of Sliding Doors is that the decisions that define your path and how you make X, Y, and Z choices. Perhaps it would've taken you there, but you make a different choice and it takes you there. It's all these paths in life and how you end up. Through work still, back in the Netherlands, I ended up meeting my now husband. We were friends. We're work-related. He was on the board of supervisors for the company I worked for. It was a no-go zone but then through a bit of hearsay, I found out that he was leaving the country. He was moving to Australia. I reached out to him saying, “I heard that you're moving to Australia. Do you want to grab a drink?”

He told me that he was offered a job in Australia and he took it. We had a lovely farewell drink. That was it but there was something there. It was a spark. Sliding Doors, had I not listened to that. Where would I have been now? I would've been back in the Netherlands. What happened is that it was in 2011. For the next twelve months, we stayed in touch. The next year, I went over to Australia to visit him and we fell in love there. In 2012, I moved to Australia. At the time, I went in and I told my family that it was going to be for a year. If it doesn't work out, I'll be back.

My family still tells me, “Sofie said it was going to be a year and it's been years now.” We're now married. That's the Sliding Doors effect. If I had not listened to my gut feeling that there was something there, I would not be living the life that I have right now. I took the plunge and moved to Australia, but I had to start all over again. What I had in the Netherlands, after my internship, I worked at that company I was at for a couple of years. I felt like I was a good sport. I carved out a place in that organization for myself, but I had to start all over again. Also, the visa I was on at the time didn't give me full work rights either.

It was so much trial and error. I took the first possible thing I could get my hands on also because I wanted to meet people. I wasn't even for work. I wanted to desperately meet people and feel at home. I ended up working in travel for about a year and a half which is lovely. I met a couple of people there who are still incredibly close friends of mine. It was fantastic and a good year. I then moved back into real estate. I worked as a portfolio manager in commercial real estate, which was great, but it still didn't feel quite like me. I worked for a startup, a student accommodation marketing platform. I worked there for about two and a half years, and I ended up getting burned out.

There were quite a few redundancies as well and I kept surviving each and every redundancy. In a way, I felt so lucky now having been able to survive them all. I had so much survivor's guilt. I think that's something that's real and I felt quite miserable at the end. Also, the long days, and the travel, it was starting to break me up. I didn't recognize the signs early enough so I ended up resigning. I couldn't take it anymore. I was physically ill and it was far too much. I was a clean break in a way. I knew I had to change something. I couldn't keep going. I had a bit of an existential crisis in a way as well because this didn't work out. What do I do now?

However, I started working together with a coach and he was based in the Netherlands. He was one of my mom's friends and such a great human being. Kaye kept asking me like, “What do you want?” It's as simple as that. Who are you? What do you want? He kept going on about, you know, authenticity. I went through this whole journey of searching, digging, and looking for these wishes that are truly mine and are not a carbon copy of anyone else in my life. Not my mom, not anyone else, but that is truly mine and what makes me tick. To bring it back to my mom, what makes me passionate? It was a good journey to go through.

Kaye told me to perhaps flip things around because I took a sabbatical to go through that journey. After resigning, I took a sabbatical for about six months, and then after about three months, I got a little bored in a way. I knew there was time to start looking around. Kaye said, “Flip it around. Instead of thinking of a role that suits you, and then trying to find that role in whatever company, how about you try to find a company that suits you and your values and then see whatever roles they have.” I started looking around at all these companies, and then Expensify came up. Fast forward a few years later, here we are.

Becoming A Clean Slate

There are a couple of things I want to go back to. You've had these moments of freedom from being compared. When you went to Amsterdam and were enjoying that, you ended up back in the same profession right after that, and getting compared to your mom again. When you went to Australia, I'm guessing that was the first time you were anywhere that no one knew your mom. That you were just you.

Apart from my husband, but yeah.

You were being evaluated on you, not the example of your mom. How was that in the beginning for you?

It was a little terrifying in a way because I realized that became a bit of a clean slate. The terrifying part of that and the reason I had a bit of fear about it as well was because I had this thought that I've since unpacked and I've worked through, but what if people don't like me? That means that they don't like me because of who I am not because of the baggage I have where I constantly point to anything else apart from finger pointing to me. It was definitely a tinge of fear, but at the same time, the excitement of being able to carve out a new path and redefine who you are. As I said, the clean slates were incredibly exciting but it wasn't easy.

I still remember crying my eyeballs out over dinner and going, “I don't know what to do. I’m not happy. What am I doing?” Also, at the time, I didn't feel like I could open up entirely to my husband either because I knew that he'd feel guilty for in a way bringing me to Australia, which wasn't true. It was my choice alone. I felt a bit alone in that way but looking back now, it's funny how we reflect back for many years now. I don't remember the hard parts anymore. When I dig deep, I'll remember it but I just remember the lessons I've learned. In a way, even though I was 25, and 26, it was still maturing. It was quite a steep, steep learning curve, but also a growing up curve.

Breaking Beliefs And Negative Self-Talk

Like you, I had a strong mother figure in my life too. When you're going through those shifts, when things aren't going well, or you took those breaks and you weren't on the corporate ladder right now. You took it off. You still have those messages going through your head of whatever those belief systems were and what you think she would think about it even if she wouldn't but that's what's built into that neural channel. What did you do with that self-talk as you were going through the process? It’s because I think for a lot of people negative self-talk gets in the way of our progress.

I think it boils down to the belief system. It's about breaking beliefs. The coach I worked together with at the time tried to boil down to the essence. What he told me and what worked for me at the time was he said, “Your core beliefs will probably stay with you but you've got to see them as a pair of glasses. The moment you realize it's like a pair of glasses that you put on, you also realize that you can take them off.” I started to get comfortable with the idea that it's only a lens or a filter that you put over things. If you put the filter over things, you can also take the filter back off and take moments in time to go, “Is this real?”

It's been quite a work in progress. I don't think it clicked until my burnout because, during my sabbatical, I did a couple of pretty cliché things. I learned how to ride a motorcycle. I never touched a motorcycle since. I did a Pilates teacher training course because I love Pilates. I also went to a yoga retreat. We did a lot of yoga nidra. The teacher was a lovely Scottish lady. I think her name was Claire, but she used to be a solicitor, a corporate lawyer but she also went through burnout. Shen then ended up full-time teaching yoga. She told me quite a few things, but part of it was also what she said. She called it reflections. She said that every time you struggle with something and you feel like you're blocking yourself, ask yourself a couple of questions.

The first question is, “Is it true?” The second question is, “Can you know that it's true? How would you react when you have that thought? Would you be without the thought?” I started to make that. I adopted that. Every time I encountered something, I'd get either lack confidence or have a particular response that I knew was going to go back to my core beliefs. It was my belief system. I would ask myself those questions by taking a moment and asking myself those questions and realizing, “You are getting worked up over nothing.” Your response is you don't have to get this worked up over this, but taking a moment, unpacking it, and reflecting on it helped me so much.

That's good advice. That self-reflection or observation on that is important. You also talked about how he asked you who are you. Did you define that?

Yeah. I think I am a very compassionate human being who cares deeply about the people around me. We joked at the time, that I would've been a great doctor or a nurse. I've missed my calling there also because I don't like blood and I don't like needles. I would've been the most awful medical professional but people are truly what make me tick. I think that's my passion. I know that sounds so cliché, but the human side of things. I quite often look at groups of people and I find the anthropological side of it. It's so fascinating as well. Also, how people make up an organization and how everyone will have their own strengths and weaknesses but together, it’s like this foundation and I find that so interesting.

I never realized up until that point that I was in it for the people. That's what I love so much about Expensify is that they give me that space to mentor individuals and to work together in an almost consultative approach. I feel like over time and unpacking things, I've distilled it to who I am and what makes me passionate. Also, how to apply that in my day-to-day as well.

It's funny because when you went to choose your own major, that's what you chose for organizational behavior.

It brings it back to that.

You literally knew the answer when you thought you didn't know the answer. When you were taking it out of mimicking your mom, that's where you went naturally without identifying that was your passion.

I was going full circle there. At some time, that same realization made me laugh as much because I was like, “I knew it all along.”

A Hobby And A Livelihood

The thing is a lot of things are right in front of us when we choose to be open to looking at it. When we've got blockers, we keep pushing against that because we're trying to please or whatever that negative self-talk that's getting in our way of that answer when you think you can't answer it. It's the practice of mindfulness that allows you to observe those things in yourself to make sure that you are showing up authentically. I have to ask though. Have you been a chef since? What have you done with that passion?

Yes and no. I love experimenting. It's a phase that I go through. There will be moments where I get quite obsessive and I get myself a nice new cookbook. I'll make all these beautiful dishes and get sidetracked again. However, there's still gratefulness, but not cooking myself. Some people might call it a fetish, but I do see beautifully made dishes. It's almost like a form of art. I love to dine out and I'm so lucky in Melbourne, there is such a great restaurant scene. There are cuisines from all over the world so I'm spoiled here, but there will be moments where I look at a dish and I'm like, “I don't want to eat this. I just want to look at it and savor it because this is a pure work of art.” There's still something there for sure.

I think too, it's good to understand what a good hobby is and what's livelihood. That was going toward a hobby or desire that you could apply in any part of your life or in how you apply it in different ways as you get older. It doesn't mean that you have to be a chef. It can be your foodie. As long as you're around food, you enjoy the art.

Over time, I've learned to appreciate it more as a hobby. A couple of years ago I did a number of formal wine courses. I was officially credited as a sommelier. I'll never say never but not that I work in a restaurant right now but just knowing that I went through that and I've got the knowledge. It makes me feel good about myself. That is my hobby now. It's not professional in any way. I work for Expensify which gives me great fulfillment. There is no need to add to that, but it's a wonderful hobby and it allows me to be creative in my own way.

Rapid Fire Questions

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I like to end with some rapid-fire questions. If you can pick a category. It’s either family and friends, money, spirituality, or health.

Most people pick family so I'm not going to pick family now. It would be very in line with Expensify to choose money, but I'm going to pick health instead.

Things or actions I don't have that I want.

I think consistency. I can be quite obsessive and throw myself into a new thing and then get fed off.

Like the need to get the certification. I'm very similar.

I get a bunch of like, “Wine. I love wine. I'll do that.” I've got a beautiful golf bag with the emotional amazing golf clubs in there and it's collecting dust at the moment. I still love running, but there was a time when I was quite obsessed with running. I signed up for every single fun run. I jokingly said I was collecting medals because they gave you a medal after every single one of them. I throw myself into things and then I wouldn't say I give up necessarily, but it fizzles out a little bit. I'd love to have a little bit more consistency there and just stick through it.

Things or actions I do have that I want to keep.

I think mindfulness. Through trial and tribulation, I've come to realize how intertwined mental and physical health are for me. Also, how important mindfulness is. I practice a lot of self-care and I still do those reflections on a very regular basis. I do meditate. I love yoga Nidra and unpacking things. I do bully checks to stay in tune with what's happening and whether I'm fitting any niggles or anything like that. Again, through my journey, I've come to realize that when I'm not feeling good or I'm feeling stressed, I notice the signs in my body as well. I don't want that. I want to keep practicing that for sure.

Those are the things too. I always say to people that I'm teaching about it, but when you practice it, it almost becomes an insurance policy for when you need it. You don't realize that because it's very hard to do those things when you need it just like insurance is hard to get when you need it. It's the same thing. If you're in a stressful situation or a hard time, you can revert back to some of these practices because your body can go to it without you even thinking about it.

I'll remember that one. It's like an insurance policy.

Things are actions I don't have that I don't want to have

I was diagnosed with a thyroid autoimmune disease a couple of years ago called Graves disease. It's been pretty challenging getting that under control. I didn't expect it to be so challenging. The thing with Graves disease is because it's a thyroid, it impacts pretty much everything in your body. I've been working with a great endocrinologist on that, but getting that under control has been quite a few years now. I'm starting to get to the par. I'm a little over it. I had moments where I was so disappointed with my boy but I do feel hopeful. I feel like 2024 is going to be the year that we'll get it under control. If you ask me, “Are there any things that you don't want?” Absolutely. I'd love to exchange that for something else or get rid of it. I don't want it.

The last one is things or actions that I do have that I don't want.

That was Graves disease. I don't want that. To answer your previous question the things that I don't have and I don't want it. It’s injuries. Despite the Graves disease, I do have my blessings. I'm generally now very healthy. Even though I throw myself into things like picking up my running shoes and going for a 10-mile run just out of nowhere, which would be begging for injuries like shin splints and all of that. I've never had any major injuries. I've never had any major accidents. I'm very lucky in that way. That's something that I don't have that I don't want yet. Let's keep it that way.

I am knocking on wood for you. Is there anything that we haven't discussed or you want to emphasize from this discussion for our audience?

There are a couple of takeaways that I wanted to emphasize. I think to me at least, breaking beliefs is self-awareness. In order to keep reflecting on what drives you, your why, and to keep checking in with yourself. I also think sometimes your why can be fluid and it depends on whatever's happening at that point in time in your life. Also, the path of self-discovery does come with challenges at times. It is not an easy path but I think breaking free of those limitations, even though you won't be able to fully shake those belief systems that you have.

Breaking free of the limitations that come with it can be so liberating. I want everyone to keep remembering that. Alongside that, reemphasizing it. The insurance policy, I think mindfulness. I love describing it that way because some of my friends sometimes tell me, “Why would I want to do it? What's the point?” I think describing it as that I think is a good one.

I want to thank you so much for sharing your story and being so authentic and transparent with everybody because everybody's story teaches someone else something or they can relate. I appreciate that.

No problem. Thank you for having me.

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Mindful Moments

Now, my mindful moments in this interview with Sofie. I appreciate her willingness to be so open and transparent about her life's journey and talking about her path living from the history of her mom being a single mother, also her grandmother being a single mother, and how each person's experience affected another. We talked about her grandmother's experience affecting her mother because her mom had to grow up very quickly and be responsible.

Also, she was able to have a lot of success, not only because of that, but learned a lot of the skills to keep climbing and making sure that she was successful when a lot of women were not in leadership roles at that time. That example that was created then went to Sofie, and she saw a mom who was very independent, was also a great mother at the same time, and was able to balance these things, but also show up in her career and be respected.

Now, stopping there a lot of times we don't think about how each story leads to another story. When we don't back up into generations to understand what drives the person that's closest to us, and understanding what their circumstances were and what they lived under, and so forth. When I say that it is not to make excuses for any one person's behavior, but it's to better understand their behavior from an observation standpoint and not judge it, but also, to understand that every single person is responsible for the behavior that they have.

We see a lot of times, and I've seen it a lot in my own life, where circumstances can lead to others having bad behavior and then that bad behavior gets blamed because of the circumstances that they had. Now, in this case, because of the way that her mother was born, we talked about nature versus nurture. She somehow had the wherewithal to not follow the same pattern of her mother, but drive herself in a different way and make a positive out of it.

Now, understanding all of that, there is a foundation to each of us that is like clay that we can mold based on how we're born but that doesn't tell you what your life story is. That's your beginnings and then it's whether you are willing to observe these situations that you have in your life and how they've impacted you. Also, what decisions do you make out of them? A lot of the discussion that we had on this is that for Sofie, seeing a mom like she did was a big role model to have.

In our mind, a lot of times we don't realize the pressure we're putting on ourselves that we will maybe blame and say that someone is putting that pressure on us, but without observation of what is driving us. Also, what are those messages that are going on in our minds and our bodies that are creating that energy for us? If we don't observe it and stop, then we just keep driving ourselves towards something that no one cares about except us.

It's important that we are living a life true to ourselves. That was this discussion how do we get to this life that's true to ourselves? That is with a lot of self-discovery. Self-discovery is not always fun. It's usually not. There are moments of observation where it can be like a-ha moments, but there's a lot of stuff where you're in the muck of it and that we have to observe what's going on in our bodies, the energy that we're creating, the burnout that we might be feeling, and the stress that we might be feeling.

Also, instead of looking at the outward response, understand what's driving that response for us because usually, that might be three or four levels deeper than what we think it is. When we observe and question ourselves, we talk about the practice of mindfulness, and truly ask the question, “Who are you? Am I showing up that way in all aspects of my life that I want to show up as me because there is no one else unique like me or you in the world that each of us has a gift to give?”

Whether that gift is small or large, there's no measurement of that. I truly believe we are each put on this earth to live out our true purpose, and our passion, and our work is to figure out what that is. Once we figure out what that is, it makes other decisions easier. As we talked about, once she got down to who argued what her driving values that she had, it wasn't necessarily the job that mattered where we focused so much on the title and what the job is.

However, instead of, “Am I going to be able to live to my potential, my authenticity, and show up in the way that I want to show up?” When she identified that people are what drive her, which was in front of her face the whole time, which was interesting in her story. If she's not in a role or a company that allows her to understand people and understand how to get the most out of people and build teams. Also, understand how people's strengths and weaknesses can offset each other, then she's just not going to be happy. That is going to drive burnout.

It is important that we take that time. Even if we all have the same job title, it doesn't mean within that job title, there can't be nuances that drive someone's purpose and who they are so that they can show up authentically and enjoy the work that they are doing. We're not always going to get 100% of that in our day, but if we're getting 60% or 70% of it, we're doing pretty good. I hope you enjoyed this episode and were able to take away some of her story and her lessons to take into your own life.

I always appreciate our listeners and the fact that you keep letting people know about this show, subscribing to the show, and leaving us reviews, because that is what helps get the word out about the messages and the stories that we are trying to get out into the world. I want to thank Expensify again for being a sponsor of this episode. If you haven't worked with Expensify before, they are a payment super app that helps individuals and businesses simplify the way they manage money. To learn more about how Expensify can help save you time to focus on what really matters, check out, Use.Expensify.com/spendmanagement. I want to thank you again for listening to this episode, and I look forward to sharing future episodes with you.

Important Links 

• Expensify

• Spend Management

• Sofie de Vreese - LinkedIn

• Expensify

About Sofie de Vreese

Sofie joined Expensify in 2018 and manages all things strategy and partnerships in the APAC region. A true generalist, Sofie advances Expensify’s innovations in preaccounting through product development and strategic initiatives and combines that with her love for people development by mentoring a number of people within Expensify. In her free time, Sofie enjoys a balance between collecting medals at fun runs, playing golf, practicing mindfulness through Yoga Nidra, and making her own jewelry.