Episode 10: Don't Limit Yourself: Learn To Grow In Baby Steps With Laura Mangan
In this world, your largest fear carries your greatest growth. Laura Mangan, the National President of AFWA, talks about her growth as a leader and how she navigated her career as an introvert. Laura has served as a volunteer on the AFWA National Board since 2012 and on the AFWA Mesa East Valley Chapter board since 2005. In this discussion, Laura shares how she has navigated her career as an introvert and how she has not let that get in the way of her success when taking on leadership roles.
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Don't Limit Yourself: Learn To Grow In Baby Steps With Laura Mangan
I'm with Laura Mangan. She is the 2019 to 2020 National President of the Accounting & Financial Women’s Alliance. Laura has served as a volunteer on the AFWA National Board since 2012 and on the AFWA Mesa East Valley Chapter board since 2005. After earning her Bachelor’s degree in Accountancy from Northern Arizona University and her MBA from Arizona State University, her career has focused on management accounting roles in small and medium-sized manufacturing companies. She is the controller for SV Pro at Tempe, Arizona. She is a CPA and a Certified Management Accountant. Laura shares how she has navigated her career as an introvert and how she has not let that get in the way of her success when taking on leadership roles.
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Laura, do you want to give us a little background on yourself?
I am a Management Accountant by training. I earned my Bachelor's degree at NAU and my MBA from ASU. I've spent many years in different management accounting roles, mostly in manufacturing for small and medium-sized companies. I've been active with accounting associations, mostly with the Accounting & Financial Women's Alliance. I joined them in 2002 and I was asked to serve on my chapter board. That led to one role to the next role. I’ve met a lot of great members from across the country. All of them encouraged me to continue beyond my chapter. That's how I got involved as a regional director, as a national director, and being able to serve on the national board is my way of giving back to our members.
What was it about being part of an accounting women's association versus other associations you are in that got you interested?
One of the things is that being able to have that additional support to help me grow into that leadership role. There weren't a lot of women in the higher-level accounting positions. I didn't see as many role models.
Maybe you can give us a little background. How did you choose the field when you were little? Do you want to be an accountant or did you want to be something else?
Not specifically. I knew I liked business. I went into the college of business, but I wasn’t sure exactly. I knew I didn't want to do tax or audit. I started out as a Finance major. In my very first Finance class, I was in a room full of future stockbrokers. I realized that was not my niche. I was lucky that at NAU, you had two options in their Accounting major. One was the public track, which most people are familiar with. You'll go in and become part of that company and help them grow and succeed and that's where I want it to be.
What was it about that versus public accounting?
Part of it was I am an introvert. I do get very nervous going into new and different, unfamiliar situations. The idea of having to go to different client accounts and visiting them every couple of weeks, that was not appealing at all, but I do like accounting. It was where you can have that. You can tell the story of the company because you take that financial data. You work with the leadership team to try and see, “This is what the story is telling us. If we don't like the story, these are the steps we need to do to change that.”
Where were you from? Where did you grow up?
I grew up in Mesa, Arizona. My dad was in the Air Force when I was born. We traveled a little bit, but by the time I started school, we mostly stayed in Mesa. I am an Arizona native.
Was your mom working?
She was going back to school a little bit. Most of the time, growing up, she was taking community colleges one class at a time. She graduated with her Bachelor's degree from ASU about a semester after I graduated. I always had that encouragement to get my education.
It was from her that she wanted you to go to college and get a degree.
My dad was going back to try and get his MBA about the time when I was born. He couldn't quite get through the Accounting class. He is great with math, but he couldn't get past the Accounting class. When I went to school, his advice was anything but Accounting.
You said you were an introvert. How does that affect decisions that you've made?
I would think maybe being less adventurous in risk-taking, not speaking up for different roles and things that you might be able to do as some people without having a lot of experience. They might be more adventurous and were willing to step into this role or that role to take on different projects. I'm a little less likely to do that. I'd like to be careful and cautious and aware of what it is I'm doing. I want to make sure that I've got all the data behind any of the decisions that I'm looking to make. I think that's part of what shaped my career.
I can see that it created your path because being uncomfortable, going into different situations, you weren't sure of and each one going into corporate. Once you were in, even though you know the work, your situations change all the time.
That’s the nice part about being in a smaller company versus a larger company. When I was in my MBA program, a lot of my classmates were in big companies like Intel and Honeywell in the finance areas. Their roles were very narrow. They might change year-to-year and get that exposure but when you're in a smaller company, you wear all of the hats all of the time. Your day is always going to look a little bit different. If in one task you're working on, you come up with a roadblock, you switch over to something else. That's one of the things that I've enjoyed in that environment.
How did you push yourself to be comfortable with that? That doesn't come naturally to you, right?
Learning To Grow: When you're in a smaller company, you wear all of the hats all of the time.
No. It’s being able to sit in a leadership or management team meeting. You'll speak up like, “These are the things that I need. This is what I'm doing for your department. This is what I'm requesting. These are the deadlines by the auditors. This is not optional. I need your support to do that.” That, I think, has been the challenge of making sure that I'm speaking up for those things.
How do you learn that? How do you think you've got it?
I had practiced and the consequences of not getting that information with the auditors. I've got a little bit more reason behind my requests other than, “I would like this but I need this by this date.”
Have you found yourself in an issue because you couldn't speak up or you found yourself that you didn't speak up when you should have?
I think there have probably been a few opportunities that have had been missed. It's like, “That could have been handled differently. That could have been handled a little bit quicker.” Things can fester and stuff like that. The sooner and the more proactive you can be in that, the easier it is to whatever the issue might be to get through, resolve it and move forward.
Were your parents introverted?
No. I'm the only member of my family who's not entrepreneurial spirited. I'm not sure where all that came from.
You've got that to look to. With all that, have there been examples to help you break from that when you need to?
I’m watching my parents as they were trying to grow their businesses. I’m seeing what it took to step out into that face-to-face meetings with new clients or potential clients. I think seeing that helps have that conversation when I need to.
Tell me how an extroverted person bothers you.
Most of the time, I realize that as an introvert, I can have conversations. I can talk. If we're at a three-day conference, I'm going to be exhausted by the end of it. They seem to be energized by that energy and that's draining for me. I do need to take a little step back. Sometimes they might not realize that's why you're sitting in the corner flipping through your phone so that you can have that quiet time to recharge.
An important thing is that a lot of the time people look at body language or what someone's doing and take it personally. They are trying to understand when you're working with anyone or have interpersonal relationships that you do get that understanding of what makes each person comfortable. If you don't, you're looking at you in the corner and you're like, “She doesn't want to be a part of it.”
Sometimes we are recharging and then we can regroup.
Is that how you can get yourself re-energized with people that are extroverted? Are there other tactics that you do that helps you?
I think some of it is taking a little bit of time back and being prepared. If I know I'm going to be speaking with someone who maybe is a little bit more outgoing than myself, I know I need to maybe think about, “If I'm going to schedule a meeting, can I do that maybe in the morning or the afternoon? When am I going to be at my freshest so that I can handle that conversation a little bit better?”
That's a thoughtful thing of making sure that you can show up with the right energy.
Some people are morning people. I am not. The first thing in the morning is not the time for me to be having a difficult conversation. That's the time I can go through my emails, check things off the list, focus on what I need to do that day and then I can do that a little bit later.
I like that because a lot of times, if you have a meeting in the morning and it doesn't go well, you blame the meeting rather than taking responsibility for, “How can I make sure I show up at my best?” Your role here with the AFWA, with the personality that you have, what gave you the confidence to do this? Was there anyone that brought you along that coached you along the way?
My boss was surprised that I could actually do this role. Having gotten familiar with how I am at work, it’s like, “I don't know how you serve on the National Board and do these kinds of things.”
What is different?
Learning To Grow: You can't be a silent leader when you’re leading an association.
I am quiet in the office. They're like, “How can you lead an association when you don't speak up as much?”
That’s interesting. You can't be a silent leader.
I did say some of the things that have been helpful in my path through AFWA. When I was looking for some networking event to help me pull me out of my shell a little bit. When I found AFWA, it was a small enough chapter where I felt comfortable in getting to know the individual members. They're very encouraging. Right after I finished my MBA, that's when our incoming chapter president, Paula Zanni, reached out to me and said, “I've got a couple of spots open. Would you be interested?” I'm going to have some free time, it is a perfect chance to jump in. I'm like, “Sure. I can take minutes.” I signed up to be a secretary.
Did you pause before that? Are you wondering if you should or not?
It wasn't until after I realize that secretary role. We took the minutes. In the meeting the next month, we had to read them out loud. I got into the habit of emailing those documents to everyone. That again was another push to get me outside of my comfort zone and outside of that box.
Where did it go from there?
It went from one position to another. I went through and served as our chapter president as well. I took on a lot of responsibility with our programming.
You have to speak every meeting, right?
You do. You have to reach out to people you don't know to get them to be speakers. I was like, “How do I approach this person who does not know me? They don't know why they should talk to me. How do I make that a compelling conversation?”
What did you do?
I definitely got their emails on LinkedIn, “This is who I am. This is what I'm looking for. This is why I'm reaching out to you. I was looking for this type of speaker. You seem to be an expert in that area. Would you be interested or perhaps have a recommendation?” That's usually a pretty soft sell. It is easy enough to have that conversation.
That is an important point that I want to rehash a bit. Sometimes, this is even brought up in generational differences, not just personality. That older generation will be like, “They don't want to go out to networking events. They don't want to go to do the things that I did. They just want to be on social media.” It's not necessarily generational. It's a personality thing. If someone's better at social media with networking, how do you enhance that person's ability to be able to contribute versus that was the way you knew how to do it?
In associations, we saw a big decrease in membership and activities. Even our own members, attending events and things because as online education opportunities popped up, it became less critical for them to go to those face-to-face events. People shy away from that, but they forget the importance of learning how to interact with people, learning how to go to a conference, manage that schedule and being able to have those face-to-face conversations. We're going to see a little bit more shift back towards that as people realize, “I can't do everything remotely. I do need to learn how to speak to people. I do need to know how to communicate any type of requests and appropriate business communication.” That's hard to do when all you do is text or instant message. You don't learn those skills. One thing that our AFWA members chapter had the opportunity to do is to take that young professional who's might be good at the social media, let them loose on something like LinkedIn with a purpose so that they can start reaching, building out to other people, and building their networks in that professional capacity. They can see how that can impact their careers.
Were there people that helped guide you with that and helped give you the confidence to keep taking on the next leadership level and give you those tips about being successful?
Most everyone I met in my chapter were so supportive that they encouraged me to continue in my chapter roles. I actually followed Paula onto a regional director role and then onto the national board. At the time, we had a member from our Phoenix chapter serving as a national president, we had a member from our Flagstaff chapters, everyone on the exec committee, Paula was stepping on. I had such great role models along the way to follow into national board service.
I think that goes to building relationships too. A lot of times people's success or ways that become leaders is because other people believe in you and the relationships you develop and how you pull people along.
Especially if you start feeling a little shaky about your own skillsets or your own beliefs. If someone else's believing in and they're encouraging you, that helps you continue to look forward with it.
You said that your boss at work sees a different side of you. Why is that?
I am quiet at work. It's a smaller company. I've got a small team and I'll be in many different meetings with different management teams. He doesn't see all of the stuff that happens behind the desk. He was thinking, “This very quiet person who doesn't speak up a lot at work, how does she manage to run a big organization?”
What do you tell him?
Learning To Grow: Most of the time, when introverts are not speaking, it's because they’re thinking.
It helps that they’re accountants. We share the same background and experience. I think that's easier to do, especially when it's a group that you're comfortable with. It's a lot easier to speak up. You're in a small chapter meeting versus trying to do a bigger organization. That helps build your confidence and lets you keep moving forward.
Are there beliefs that you've had through this journey of expanding yourself as well too, that you think rub off on other people or you try to make sure people come away with from working with you?
It’s that hopefully, they don't limit themselves. This is not my area of expertise. If this is something I'm not comfortable with, can you do baby steps to get comfortable with that so you can learn to grow? Are you finding new and different ways to give back or participate or to make your own impact?
When each of us goes through our career, there are moments we take stock with the things that we do. Me, being an extroverted person, if I'm in a meeting, I'm probably speaking more than you. How do you handle that and make sure that you're getting what you need across or someone like me doesn't dominate that conversation?
Most of the time, when introverts are not speaking, it's because we're thinking. One thing I try and do is if a thought comes into my head, I'll make a note. By the time someone else has finished their conversation, I may have forgotten what I was going to say. At least having a note down on the paper during that meeting will remind me, “This is what I wanted to bring up.” If there's a break in the conversation, then I can speak up a little bit more.
Do the people that work with you realize that about you?
I think so. It helps too that some of the meetings we have agendas. Everybody takes turns going around the room. Then you don't have to worry about, “I'm not going to have an opportunity to speak up. I have the numbers I need to share in front of me.” When it's my turn, I'll do that.
That’s a good point there. I think to have a structured meeting for different personalities in the room is important. Everyone has a chance to say what they need to.
I have sales and accounting in the same room. You know what's going to happen.
It doesn't mean sales get their way though. You've done an amazing job of working with being introverted and succeeding so much as a leader. Are there other belief systems that you've had throughout your life that have been something that has helped you? Something that you have had to overcome in the roles you've been in?
Probably, a big part of it is to not be afraid to try something new. Trying to step outside of my comfort zone, getting involved with associations, hosting different events. We've been doing our chapter seminar for many years now. That takes a lot of coordination, thinking that you can accomplish that because when you have a smaller chapter, there are not as many people to share the responsibilities. There's something that anybody can contribute. Try to help other members in stepping into a new role. Walk them through, showing them what has worked, what we've tried to pass so that they don't go into it not understanding what may be the time requirements are, what the resources are and being able to show them that these are the things that have been worked for us in the past. Let them put their own spin on it.
It’s about trying something new and giving people space to create.
Being for them as what others have been for me is a source of encouragement and that belief that you can accomplish this.
It sounds like throughout, you've had people around you that have believed in you.
They’ve been very helpful.
There's never an understatement in that of giving people that opportunity to grow. Oftentimes, everyone focuses on their own lives. They've got demands. What time are you putting in your workday or your personal life to dedicate to somebody else, whether it's on your day, your week so that you're helping to expand other people as well?
Maybe a little time every day, whether it's following up on request or some of these guys trying to make a job changes like, “Do you know this as well? I usually find out different opportunities. Let me see if something looks like it would be a good fit for you.” I'll make sure to make that introduction.
I think it all comes down to people need to know they exist. That they're not being ignored. Even if they've got personalities that aren't extroverted or that they're not the leader in the room, every person matters.
Take that time to sit down and talk with them. Ask their opinion, especially if they're somebody who doesn't offer it very often. Ask them, “What do you think about this? Did you have any ideas to help whatever the project might be?”
What advice would you give other introverted people, especially young professionals coming out? What would be some ideas for them to push past?
Learning To Grow: There are always good resources on how to take the small steps to be healthier.
We had a conversation in the first-time attendee conferences. There are a lot of new attendees at the conference and we’re trying to help them make the most of it. If you are an introvert, pace yourself because this is a long three days. You don't want to wear yourself out. If you need a break, take a little break for yourself, recharge, then go back. Another idea was to focus on a one-on-one conversation and get to know one person. It's not as overwhelming as if you've got a whole group of people that are all talking at one time. You have a nice quiet corner. You have a great conversation. You walk away with somebody and a new relationship.
If you meet one person, you accomplished something. You don't have to be somebody you're not, so find that comfort level.
As I was walking from the session, I had seen a whole lot of small groups of people conversations going on and like, “There's this whole big conference over there, but there are these nice little relationships that are being built.” That is great to see.
That's what lasts. I like to do some rapid-fire questions and you pick a category.
I pick health.
What are things or actions that you don’t have that you want as far as your health?
Stress. I’m prepping for a new conference. It’s been a hectic schedule. I’m looking forward to having a little less stress.
What are things or actions you do have that you want?
I got good resources for healthier living. I’m on some accounting volunteer roles. I've worked with Go Red for Women ambassador board in the Phoenix area. There are always good resources on how to take the small steps to be healthier. I'm a little bit more active and eating right. It's nice to have those resources to fall back on.
What are things or actions you don't have that you don't want?
That was a lot of negatives. It was really hard. Nothing popped into my head when I was thinking about it.
Don’t you have anything that you don't want with your health?
I don't think so.
What are things or actions that you do have that you want?
It's a good resource for my downtime, for my quiet time, my cat, Mr. Snowballs. You get so hectic and there are 1500 things to do. We're talking about not multitasking, but when he wants attention, I don't get to multitask. It's just him. It's a nice way to force myself to sit back, relax and let everything else wait.
Remember to be present. Is there anything you want people to take away from this conversation or to know about this association?
You have to find whatever association fits you, either your industry, career path, your niche and get involved. One of the things that I usually tell people is the more you put into it, the more you get out of it. It is certainly true.
Thank you so much for spending time with me and sharing your story. I'm sure our readers are going to enjoy it as well. Thank you.
Thank you.
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For our mindful moments in this episode with Laura Mangan, there were a few items that I want to pause on that Laura discussed about being an introvert and making sure that we are more mindful and aware of how we affect other people's personalities. Maybe even how accepting we are of things that we see that we may interpret taking something personally versus understanding that's what that person needs and it has nothing to do with you. That’s our natural inclination. When Laura talked about that oftentimes when things are too busy or hectic or there are a lot of extroverted people around and they get excited, that she actually needs to take moments, to step back from the group, to go in the corner, to reenergize herself to keep going in that kind of day. A lot of times, we misinterpret those things if we see someone on the phone or not paying attention or going off on their own, that means that they don't like us or they're upset about something. When really, it's just about them. It's that they need their own time to re-energize.
It's important for us to get in that seat of being compassionate toward another person rather than assuming or judging what they are going through. It's also important where she talked about some of the tools that she did as an introvert to make herself more comfortable and help her get to leadership positions. One of them was modeling after her parents that she saw her family of entrepreneurs and how they would take risks. Then she had to internalize that for herself of what could be comfortable for her. That's important that we don't try to duplicate what we see someone else is doing and assume that it will work for us. It's more learning. That's another mindfulness lesson is stepping back and observing, not judging and not being critical of how somebody is. It’s observing how they go about the same activities that you may go about and taking little pieces from that and understanding, “How could that help me to improve my own self? What things would be authentic to me not changing who I am?”
Knowing that she's more cautious and less willing to take risks, she's actually modeled it in ways to push herself past her comfort zone where she talked about the ways that she moved up through AFWA and having to speak in front of groups and even starting with speaking the minutes in front of groups, getting herself comfortable little by little. She said that it’s taking those baby steps. Not trying to jump to the end of national president, but actually taking one step at a time and just being okay with where you are rather than trying to reach for something that you may not be ready for. Because she's taken a very steady path, what she's done is set herself up for success to make sure she's comfortable in whatever role she's in before she maybe takes the next step and maybe she wants that step or not.
I think it was important too the conversation we had about how extroverts can impact an introvert and where they need to actually monitor their energy, so that they are heard. The extroverts are giving them a chance to speak as well. I know I can be guilty of this because as an extrovert, I am ready to talk. I'm ready to give my ideas. It's taking those moments to pause and give those people in the room the opportunity to speak up. Some of the tips that she said was making sure that she had notes of what she wanted to make sure she said before the end of the meeting. I don't know that any of us are good at making sure that before we walk in a meeting, we accomplish one to three things that we wanted to say or accomplish before the end of the meeting.
Not only having an agenda, but knowing from an individual standpoint, “We must accomplish this,” makes you feel more accomplished at the end of that meeting. I also loved her idea of making sure that you go around the room to make sure each person takes a turn of speaking. Sometimes in our fast-paced society, it's hard to remember to do that. What I learned from this conversation and I hope that you take away as well, is not to underestimate what an introvert can do. That doesn't mean that they're not a leader. It's that you're giving them those little opportunities to get comfortable along the way and making sure that it's not a one-size-fits-all culture. That we are cognizant of the different personalities, the different generations in the room and making sure that we are creating that awareness and space so each person can be at their best.
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About Laura Mangan
Laura Mangan is the 2019-2020 National President of the Accounting & Financial Women’s Alliance. Laura has served as a volunteer on the AFWA National Board since 2012 and on the AFWA Mesa East Valley Chapter Board since 2005.
After earning a bachelor’s degree in Accountancy from Northern Arizona University and Master’s in Business Administration from Arizona State University, her career has focused on management accounting roles in small and medium-sized manufacturing companies. Laura is currently the Controller for SV Probe in Tempe, AZ and is a Certified Public Accountant and Certified Management Accountant.
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