Episode 12: Step Through The Door: Open Your Eyes To The Opportunity Around You With Sandra Wiley
Just when we start to think life has set a permanent course for us, it suddenly opens up a different path. This is what Sandra Wiley’s journey looks like. In this discussion, Sandra shares her journey from growing up on a farm and originally starting college on a music scholarship to eventually becoming the President of Boomer Consulting, Inc. She opens up about the challenges she overcame and the people she met along the way who helped her figure out who and where she is meant to be. Listen more to Sandra as she shares how being open to opportunity, having a little bit of luck, and being flexible has contributed to her success along the way.
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Step Through The Door: Open Your Eyes To The Opportunity Around You With Sandra Wiley
Welcome to this episode where I interviewed Sandra Wiley. She is recognized as a leader in the accounting profession for developing strategies to transform firms into a new consultative business model. As the President of Boomer Consulting, Sandra has helped firms strategically transform their leadership talent and growth initiatives. She regularly speaks and writes on these topics at conferences, including AICPA Engage and in industry-wide publications. For several years, she has been named as one of the top 25 Most Powerful Women and top 100 Most Influential Women in Accounting. In my interview with Sandra, we discussed her journey from growing up on a farm and originally going to college on a music scholarship to eventually becoming the President of Boomer Consulting. She shares how by being open to opportunity, having a little bit of luck along the way and being flexible has contributed to her success.
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I'm here with Sandra Wiley from Boomer Consulting. Sandra, do you want to talk a little bit about your background before we get started?
I'm the President of Boomer Consulting, but if you take a look at my world, where I started from and where I ended up, it is no crystal ball to how I got here. It isn't like I woke up when I was a senior in high school and said, “I want to be the president of Boomer Consulting someday.” That's not what happened. Now it is awesome because I am a part of the shareholder team. We have four shareholders. We have sixteen employees. We’re a completely remote office, which is amazing. We are focused on professional services within the CPA market. It's all about public accounting for every one of us. It's been wonderful. This whole experience, many years I have been with Boomer Consulting. Even there, I don't think that it was a straight path. I didn't join the company thinking, “I want to be the president someday,” or even a shareholder. I thought it's a job. It turned into much more. I was lucky. There are lots of things that happened along the way. Some of it was luck and some of it I stepped through doors. It's been fun.
Let’s start with you as a little girl. What did you want to be when you grew up?
I was raised in a town of 500 in the middle of Kansas. It's a farming community. My dad was a coop manager. Everybody knew everybody inside the city limits. Honestly, here's what I thought. When I was a senior in high school, I grew up thinking I'm going to be a mom. I'm going to be a stay-at-home mom. I didn't even think about going to college. It's not because my parents didn't push me. It was because of the role models that I saw and that I loved, my grandmother, my mom, all my friends, their moms stayed home. That was what I thought I was going to do. I went to college. I went on a music scholarship to sing. I’m a voice major and I also play the piano. It's interesting too. People that go into this profession and do what we're doing, a lot of them are performers. They're actors or they're musicians or something.
People will say to me, “I can't imagine speaking in front of people.” Even in a small room, people can get nervous over that. I've always tracked it back to practicing the violin because if you miss a note, it does not sound good. You are by yourself at those recitals or through an audition. You've got to practice and practice. What people see as the final performance is they don't know you're re-practicing a measure for an hour. It trains you in how to be prepared.
It makes you say you're much more comfortable in front of that audience. It's going to be clever. Nobody's going to judge you that harshly for it.
Let me backtrack a little. You said your mom was a housewife and you thought you're going to be a housewife. How do you take the leap to go to college? When did that shift? You had a belief system, “I'm going to be like my mom. I’m going to live in this town.” When did that shift?
I got married young. I was eighteen years old. I went off to college. I went one year on a music scholarship to a community college.
Is that why you went to college because you got a scholarship? Someone heard you play or sing?
Sing, and I could play too. I could do both. The vocal is what got me there. I got there. I met a guy. I stopped him and I was like, “Love of my life.” He was a basketball player. He had gotten a scholarship to go to Reno, Nevada the next year. He was a couple of years older than I was. I followed him. We got married the next summer. We're running off to Reno, Nevada.
Did your mom get married young?
Yeah.
That was something that you knew you could.
The truth is over those years, I got a job in a bank immediately when I got there. I can't tell you why, but I was never satisfied ever, which is being whatever I was.
You got a job at a bank because you were looking for income.
Honestly, I’m looking for a job. I figured I needed a job to pay the bills while we got started. I grew at the bank and kept working my way up. By the time we're done, I did not have a college degree, but I was a financial analyst at the bank. It was a ten-year spread. Every time somebody would say, “Would you like to try this?” I'd say, “Yeah, absolutely.” I didn't know it at the time, but now I understand. I have this internal competitiveness, even against myself that I want to succeed. I want to be better. I'm never quite good enough or satisfied. I'm always looking for what will make me better. I didn't have any idea. I wasn't even analyzing at that point. I was going through life, but at the end of ten years, my husband decided he didn't want to be married anymore. I was not happy either. I was living away from my family. I wanted to go back to college. I couldn't see how I was going to get that done. I had two little kids at the time. It was an unhappy relationship. It was all that. I thought, “I need to change this.” It was interesting because my growing up years were, “You don't get divorced.”
That's a big thing to shift. You took such a different track than your mom. Not feeling like you disappointed anyone by not being a housewife and that's why this turned out that way.
It's all of that because you have to get past the head trash disappointment. It's going to be disappointing for people. It’s going to be even a disappointment for myself. I thought you get married once and you're married forever. That's how my parents were and my grandparents. I was the only person in my family that had been through a divorce. It was one of those things. I went to a counselor and I said, “I need to fix this.” He said it takes two to fix it. If he doesn't want to fix it, you can't. I remember sitting back at that moment and thinking to myself, “I am not happy either. I've got to figure out another way, another path.”
I packed up the kids and we went back to Kansas. I immediately started looking for how do I get through college. I knew that I had to do that because I was going to support my children. I had also committed at that point, “I am never getting married again. This is never going to happen again. I am not doing this again.” I did the right thing. I went back, got a job at a bank back there because I had some experience. I went back to school at night. I had some community college credits.
Opening Up To Opportunities: Don’t let yourself get behind. Continually learn what is out there and always try to stay up to date.
You went for finances this time?
My degree is in Human Resource Management.
Why did you choose that?
I always loved this because I was a financial analyst so I can do the numbers. I didn't like the numbers. I went home every day feeling exhausted. When I was working with people, if I was working with our clients or with a team of people and I was managing them, I loved that. When I came back, I got a career counselor. I said, “I need to figure out my next steps.” They said, “Let's have you take a couple of tests.” At the end of it, she said, “Sandra, you're a people person. You got to do something. You're working with people. Human resources seemed like the right direction.” I did that. I got my degree.
When we're going through our journey, there are little nuggets of knowledge that hit us, not necessarily from us but from somebody else. We have to make a choice whether we listen to it or whether we want to keep pushing forward on the track that you're on. Why did it hit you when she said that, you're like, “I need to change my path from the experience that I have totally?”
I don't know if this makes sense or not, but it was a heart and a gut thing. The truth is I'd heard other things and it didn't make me feel good. It didn't make me feel like, “That's the right thing to do.” When she said that and she started talking about the people side of the business, it was like I brightened up. It was a strange thing to think about that. It hit me and I was like, “That is what I want.”
It’s important for everyone to hear because our bodies tell us a lot of information that we choose to ignore. I know I've made a lot of bad business decisions going into it. I knew that something didn't feel right. I kept going because I'm like, “I can get past that because what I want is this. It won't be that bad.” It ends up turning out exactly the way your body was giving you warning signals for whatever reason. It's like our animal instinct. I agree with you. It's the same thing with good things. What you're saying is I felt happy when she said that. I walk toward it versus away from it. You have to have the confidence to do that too.
Confidence is the outcome of those things that you do. I felt like the confidence that I had after that moment. This is a hard time in your life. I'm raising kids. I'm getting my kids up in the morning, taking them to daycare, going to work, coming home at night, feeding them, go to class at night, have a babysitter come over. It was a lot of investment, but I kept thinking at the end of this, I can provide better. You're always thinking down the road. I finished that and I got a job in human resources. I met a gentleman that I thought was wonderful. He's a great guy. He was truly different than anybody I had ever dated before.
How did you meet him?
He was at work. He was a financial analyst and I was an HR. He was different. I always dated these jocks and always dated these egotistical guys. He was this down to earth, wholesome, very quiet guy. We dated for five years and in that process, I'm not rushing into this. He wasn't either. Both of us were like, “We'll see.” At the end of that, it was the right time. When you talk about pivotal points, the divorce was one of them. Going back to school, that was another pivot. Getting remarried again was another pivot point. It's interesting that all of that happens and everything still feels like, “I'm still moving forward.” I've always had that feeling and I've always wanted to keep going forward. I'm status quo, I'm good.
It's not that everything goes well as you're moving. When you're hitting those moments of turmoil, questioning your decisions and so forth, it's having faith in your vision at that same time and belief in yourself.
If we could instill that in our next generation of people that it's not always going to be perfect. It's not always going to be peachy. You're going to have times when things are going to feel yucky, but you always keep your eye on what's coming. Keep your eyes going forward and you’ll be fine and grab the opportunities.
The opportunities come their way and they're like, “I'm not ready yet,” or something. You're never going to be ready.
There's never a perfect time because you have to learn your next new role every day. I stayed in banking. We got married. He adopted the children from my previous marriage and we had one together. All of that transpired. In 1992, I was looking for another job. Here's what happened in banking. They were doing a lot of mergers and acquisitions. It sounds familiar to the accounting community. My job for the last year was firing people, laying them off because we would consolidate. It was a nasty job. I thought, “I want to do something different.” I saw it in the newspaper and it was a sales assistant for Gary Boomer at Varney & Associates CPA firm.
I knew somebody there and I said, “What do you think about that job?” They said, “You do not want that job.” I said, “I need to get out of banking. Even if it's a short-term job, I need to take a break.” They said, “We'll introduce you.” Gary and I sat in the conference room at Varney & Associates and talked for two hours. At the end of it, he goes, “I want to hire you.” I said, “I love working here.” I went home that night and my husband is like, “What are you going to do?” I said, “I do not know. I liked him.” We had so much in common and we both thought the same. It was a mind melt.
I did still think, “If it doesn't work out, no big deal. I go to another job.” It ended up being another pivot point for me, I would not say this, but Gary said, “The day I met you, I knew you'd be a great consultant.” He said, “You didn't know it, but I knew it.” I knew that the profession needed somebody to talk about talent because they were all talking about technology. They were not talking about their people. After that, it blossomed. As doors open, I walked through.
We have to acknowledge the people that opened those doors for us as well because a lot of times we get in our own career path and we're not looking for who do we pull up with us or see the potential. If he had said to you right then, “I want to hire you as a consultant,” you're like, “Whoa,” but he knew you weren't ready for that conversation. When you've been in a certain field, you know how to target like, “They've got that right personality. They have that right skillset. It may not be perfect right now, but I know it can be there.” The fact that he opened that door for something that you didn't even realize you were going to walk. You were going to walk through, but you didn't know where it was going to go.
I had no idea where it was going to go. I am forever grateful to Gary for opening that door because I didn't plan this journey. I wasn't conscious. Even my own children have wanted to have a plan, “This is what I'm going to do and this is where I'm going.” I keep telling them, “Don't have so much of a hard and fast plan that you miss the beauty along the way or the potential opportunities that you didn’t even think that might come at you. Don’t get too stuck and that's what happened. Several years into that journey, I became a partner in a firm that I should never have been a partner because it was a family-owned company. Every bit of Boomer Consulting was owned by Boomer. I remember saying to Gary one time, he said, “Do you ever want to be a partner?” “Are you going to adopt me? That's the only way it's going to happen.” He goes, “No, we could figure something out.” Now it's different because there are more shareholders than Boomers. At that time, there wasn't. He went back to the family and said, “I want to do this.” They all agreed. The whole family said, “Yeah, absolutely.”
I have to say that's a hard decision to make because even family corporations, even companies that go public or whatever, that have a lot of family and leadership, it's hard to have an equal say at that level because it's still the family. They're going to take care of their own a lot of times and to feel like you can step in that and still have a voice is a challenge. How did you handle that walking in so that you felt like you were in equal footing?
There are a couple of things that happened all at the same time. Jim Boomer had come back to the business at exactly the time that they had offered me some shares of stock. We entered into that together. Jim, being the son, and I was one of the workers that I had much more experience at the company. You have to be blessed with the people. Jim's support of me and making me equal to him and the decision making along the way has been ridiculously phenomenal. He didn't have to do that. He absolutely treated me like I was one of the family.
Opening Up To Opportunities: Don't be afraid to get coached. Having somebody else help you is okay.
That’s unique, especially children, they've pictured themselves to takeover. There is a learning lesson in leadership to take the ego out because you could get in the way of major progress of a company and that's a hard thing to do.
I'm lucky because Jim had the right personality. Ego could have absolutely gotten in the way of that and it wouldn't have turned out as it did. It didn't. Gary is a phenomenal leader because he is allowing us to lead and he's stepping back away. He's doing his thing, but he's letting us lead the company. It feels right. I'm extremely grateful to all of that and how it happened. Because they are so strong and because we are all strong people, I think we have built a great team. It’s another pivot point for me because you get all wrapped up in your career. It's like you get caught up in that.
I had to slow down one time because several years ago now, I found out I had thyroid cancer. It was one of those things where it was completely weird that they found it because nothing was wrong. I didn't feel bad. I went in for a normal checkup. They are always feeling out on your neck. I never knew why they felt around it. I don't know what they're looking for. All of a sudden, my regular doctor said, “Have we ever found anything on your thyroid before?” I said, “What's a thyroid?” He said, “It's the little gland here in your neck. Have we ever found it?” I said, “No.” He goes, “I feel a little bump on there. This is probably a cyst, but we should have it checked.” The oncologist I went to said, “It's weird.” It's hard to find because it was on the backside.
I have no symptoms. I called Gary first. I told him and I told Jim. Immediately their response was, “We've got you. We'll take over your clients. We’ll take over your engagements. You go take care of yourself. Everything is fine. We'll see you back when you can get back.” It ended up being about three months. I went through all these treatments and all that stuff. I still go back for some treatments, but the bottom line is it's gone. Life is good, but it does make you. Even if it's something that they know they can treat, it's faced with mortality. You're faced with, “Are you doing all the things you want to be doing?” If tomorrow's life was gone, have you had done it all right? The thing I had to think about was, “Am I giving my family enough because I get into my job?” I get deep into my job. I had to step back. I balance my life much better now because of that. It made me think about it and I got cluttered over at the head. You need to pay attention to.
Even the support to allow you to heal without stress knowing you still had a job. A lot of times when people get sick and they're still worried about like, “Will I have a job? Will someone take my job?” Those are the moments too where you're holding on too tight when you need to focus on something else.
You need to take care of yourself.
You're never going to come down to that. How did it change your work-life balance after that? What changes did you make?
I kept trying to integrate everything. Even when I was with my family, I was still watching my email. I don't do that anymore. I have a separation. It's not like all the time. I don't go home at night and don't do any work. I go home at night, I'm with my husband. If the kids are there, I'm with my kids. Later at night when they're all going to bed, I'll get back on the email again. The greatest thing ever, I went on a two-and-a-half-week vacation. I went to England to see our daughter. Our youngest daughter got married and she lives in England now. Two and a half weeks, no technology. I left my computer at home. I left my phone at home. I truly disconnected. I would never have done that before. I honor being around my family. When I'm with them, I'm totally there. I wasn't like that before. I tried to make it all blend.
It's an interesting shift as you get older because as you're saying that, I'm like, “I burned myself out in my 30s.” Once I got in my 40s, I was like, “I don't want to do that anymore.” I have no interest. Anytime I can feel where I'm working too much, it hurts me. I’ve got to stop, step back and what do I need to stop doing because it's stressing me out. It's not producing more results.
It's like productivity slows down. Our company is into the strategic coach and that is one of the things that a strategic coach teaches you is to balance your time. You absolutely cannot be good focused unless you've had good free days where you let go of all that. I was on fire when I came back from England. I'm not tired anymore. I’m good. I will say there are times when I don't want to be at work anymore. I don't want to see people. It would be before that, if I listened to the cues when it's time to stop.
The first time I ever took a two-week vacation, I was working for an international company and everyone that lives internationally, they take four weeks. It's like they don't even understand Americans at all with this one-week thing. I tried it because they shut down the company during the holidays and I extended it another week. One thing I noticed was it takes a week to get yourself to relax. That second week was better than the first week. I was like, “There's something to this.”
I’ve noticed we should take a lesson from the Europeans. We're overworked.
What lessons have you' learned along the way that you use in your leadership style that you try to make sure with your teams that they're learning through their career as well? What are some important things that you think you bring?
Whenever I am coaching or teaching the people that are on our team or even my clients, I cannot tell you how important continual learning is. Continually looking at what's out there, what's down the road and not about you, about the world in general and always try to stay a little bit up to date on all that because you don't want to let yourself get behind. I always like that. I always say to people, “Walk through the door.” You can always stop. You can always come back, but you're not always going to get those opportunities. When an opportunity opens the door, you need to walk through and you need to give it a try. Don't be so blind that you don't see the doors that open. I've watched people that doors were there. They were open and they don't seem to notice them. It's like they're so stuck in their little bubble that they can't see what was right in front of them. When you say, “Have you ever thought about,” and you fill in the blank, they go, “Oh.” That's the other thing I would tell people is don't be afraid to get coached. Having somebody else help you is okay.
I feel like coaching gets such a bad stigma because it's misused in corporations. They use it for people that are in trouble a lot of times versus using it as a tool to enhance everybody. The thing is as you move up through your career, you move up because of your expertise, but not because you're a good people person. If you don't have someone coaching you or training you along the way to recognize what you're bringing into that, how do you change that? How do you open yourself up to listen to it? It's hard to be a good leader because you're good at what you do. It's not a weakness. One thing I did in my career was hiring one independently in my company. I felt like I needed that third-party opinion with no one that was a stake in the game that the company wasn't going to hear about my session even if you have to do that.
The only other thing I would say is that I believe in gut instinct. I believe if people could understand how to listen to what their gut is telling them, they'd make better decisions. They would put themselves out there more. Their life would probably be better. When you said earlier, you've made bad business decisions, every horrible decision I've been in my life and there's been plenty. Every one of them I can go back and say, “I knew it.” When I did it, something inside of me was saying, “Stop,” and I didn't listen. I thought I was smarter than that. I've also had people say, “Would you go back and change anything?” I would not, not one thing. It's because everything that I'd been through the good, bad and ugly got me to here. I have an amazing husband. I have an amazing job. I have three beautiful children, their spouses, five grandkids. I couldn't go back and do nothing different because that's got me to where I am now.
Every experience teaches you and readies you for your next opportunity or experience. I like to end with some rapid-fire questions where you get to pick a category. Family and friends are one category, health, money, spiritual.
I'll do family and friends.
Things or actions with my family or friends that I don’t have that I want.
I want to have more time for playing and not actual events where we have to go like Thanksgiving, Christmas. I like to go and have weekend lay time with my kids, with my family and with my friends. I want more time with them.
Opening Up To Opportunities: Don't be afraid to get coached. Having somebody else help you is okay.
Things or actions that I do have that I want.
I have a close relationship with all of my kids and my grandkids. I hear people say they're not that close. I feel sorry for them because I love my kids and my husband probably gave me the nicest compliment he's ever given me. We were at a conference one time and it was a couple's conference. Each couple had to say something about our spouse. I had to say something to him. He said, “Sandra is the heartbeat of our family.” I was like, “That's exactly what I would want to be.” That part of it I love my family.
Things or actions I don't have that I don't want.
With my friends and family, I don't have frenemies. I don't want them. I don't have them anymore. There was a time in my life that I thought everybody who had been my friend or that I thought should be my friend, I should be friends with them. They suck the life out of you. I finally have gotten the point where I've let go of those, but I don't want to go back either. When I learned that word, frenemies, I was like, “That's the truth.” Even me, I was acting like her friend but I wasn't.
It's being aware again that someone is doing that. That's a hard thing. It is hard because you want something else than it is.
It's hard with friends. It’s super hard with family. Every once in a while, I hear people talk about their family members that are terrible. You should even give yourself a pass on that, because you were born into a family, it does not mean you're stuck there forever.
Last one, things or actions that I do have that I don't want.
I still have a guilty feeling of taking too much time off and I probably should get over that. I still have that guilt of, “I can't take more than this much time.” I wish I was like the Europeans. I could take four weeks off and not feel guilty about it. I don't want to leave my team stuck. Now they don't ever feel like that. It's me. It's internal. If I could get rid of that, that might shift.
The other good thing about taking time off, it lifts other people up because they've got to take on responsibilities they never had. You're giving people opportunities to show what they can do. Anything before we end that you want to make sure people take away from our conversation or anything about Boomer Consulting you want people to know?
I would tell you that Boomer is like a family and we have amazing services. We care deeply for our clients. That comes from the fact that the ownership group is like that. They care deeply for their team. They care deeply for each other and they care deeply for their clients. Therefore, we serve them well. I would also say that the only other thing I would say as a whole, it's mind, body, spirit. It's all of that comes together. I answered the questions about my family, but I said this earlier in a session, “If you keep your priorities right, life can be pretty sweet.” My priorities are God first, family second, career third. If I keep them in that order, I keep myself centered there, life is good.
Thank you so much for taking the time.
Thank you for having me here.
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This episode was a great way to look at our life path. One of the biggest things that I take away from the discussion with Sandra is we never know where our life is going to go, whether that be personally or professionally. It takes those moments of stepping back and not putting too much pressure on ourselves if we haven't achieved what we thought we were going to achieve or we have a plan that is too stringent that doesn't allow us to pivot and move the way that life just happens. As you know with Sandra's story of starting out thinking she was going to be a housewife and not working, ending up in college, getting married young, having children and how when she went through her first divorce that getting rid of what she called that head trash of not being down on yourself because your life might be different than others or what others might expect of you.
It's important that we appreciate the things about ourselves that are unique, that create strength and also that create our success. When she was at her lowest moments, she didn't stop. That is another lesson that we can all take. Life is not a straight path and we can't control everything that happens to us. There are some that might back off or wallow. There are others that say, “I'm going to be sad for myself. I'm going to give myself a certain amount of time and then I'm going to go take hold of what's next.” She's a great example of the way that she moved through her life with heart and gut. Knowing what was important to her from her heart standpoint that would be true to her authentically, but also listening to your gut instinct. When things don't feel right, even if you want things to work out, what you need to listen to in your body and from the people around you that are giving you signals that it may be time to pivot. Not give up everything you have, not losing what makes you great, but looking at the experience that you have and how you move forward. It's not going to be a perfect path. Things are not always going to be great.
When you see opportunity, it might be this faint whisper, but how do you grab hold of it and not let it go by or let that head trash? Where we have that self-talk that says we're not good enough or someone like us doesn't deserve it, then we don't take hold of that opportunity. Sometimes we have to push past that. In my head, a lot of times there are moments when I have fear. It’s like when I was little, diving off a high dive and not wanting to do it. If I looked down into the water, it looked too far. Sometimes you just have to jump and not think about it. When you think about it too long, then that's when that head talk, head trash starts, where it might get in the way of just opening that door for you to walk through it. That was an important thing is that when people open that door for you or when you see those opportunities that there are these signals that there's an opportunity for you to walk through. Don't shut that door. See what it is. Maybe you decide that you're not going to take that opportunity for the right reason, but maybe you can push past your fears and take advantage of what is in store for you.
Another important lesson when she talked about getting sick and working at Boomer Consulting and how they said, “We got you.” A lot of times in business, this is the part we forget that we're so driven on numbers and so driven on what needs to get done that we forget that we need to have each other's backs and that we're all human. Any experience that one person is going through, you could go through as well. Having that open heart to the people that you work with and not looking at it as a political opportunity or a business opportunity for yourself if that person is taken out for a while, instead saying, “We got you, we're here for you.” These can be good things as well. It doesn't always have to be as extreme as having cancer. Because they had her back, it helped her heal because she didn't have the stress of worrying about will she have a career and will she get better and so forth. It's important that we think about how we support the people around us that we work with to make sure that everybody, if they were to look at you, would they say that you have their back?
Important Links:
@SandraWiley - Twitter
About Sandra Wiley
Sandra Wiley is recognized as a leader in the profession for developing strategies to transform firms into a new, consultative business model. As the President of Boomer Consulting, Inc., Sandra helps firms strategically transform their leadership, talent and growth initiatives.
She regularly speaks and writes on these topics at conferences including AICPA Engage and in industry-wide publications. For several years running, she has been named one of the Top 25 Most Powerful Women and Top 100 Most Influential Women in Accounting.
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