Episode 29: Believing In Ourselves: Getting Over That We Need To Be Perfect With Kacee Johnson
The world seems to ask so much from us that we feel the pressure to be perfect, to be everything to everyone while running a mile a minute. Host, Amy Vetter, talks to Kacee Johnson, Strategic Advisor for CPA.com and founder of Blue Ocean Principles, realizing the importance of believing in yourself through it all. Sharing the lessons she learned, Kacee delves into how letting go of the notion that we need to be perfect can improve our performance and enjoy the journey of finding our best selves.
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Believing In Ourselves: Getting Over That We Need To Be Perfect With Kacee Johnson
In this episode, I interviewed Kacee Johnson. She is an executive in accounting technology and has forced the way for numerous cloud providers in the global market penetration. As the Founder of Blue Ocean Principles, a company that assists vendors and strategic market to the accounting profession, Kacee works with both enterprise and startup tech companies to help them better understand the account space, create strategies for growth initiatives, and foster community engagement. In 2018, she joined CPA.com, an AICPA corporation, as a strategic advisor to the executive where she works collaboratively with the vendor and thought leader community.
She has also been recognized by Accounting Today as one of the Top 100 Most Influential People in Accounting. She has been awarded the CPA Practice Advisors Magazine’s Top 40 Under 40 award for numerous years. She has been recognized as one of the Top 25 Thought Leaders in Accounting Technology and listed among the Most Powerful Women in Accounting. During my interview with Kacee, we discussed how we can let go of the notion of needing to be perfect so that we can improve our performance and enjoy the journey of finding our best selves.
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In this episode, I'm with Kacee Johnson. Kacee, do you want to go ahead and give us a little background on yourself?
Thank you so much for having me. I am a Strategic Advisor at CPA.com, which is the business and technology arm of the AICPA. For the past about dozen years, I've been in accounting technology, everything from working on the vendor side of things to being a consultant to the profession and to vendors who are looking to connect with either accounting firms or their clients. I joined CPA.com years ago to run some of the strategic initiatives that bring together the thought leader community, the ecosystem and dive into the research and innovation pillar of helping to drive the profession forward.
I've watched your career. We've been friends for a long time. You've had a lot of pivots and I would love to talk about your beginnings as we get started of how you grew up and your role models and so forth. When you were little, what was it that you wanted to be when you grew up? Did you ever think you'd be working with accountants and CPAs?
No, it was not on the roadmap. I wanted to be a judge. In my undergrad, I did a double Major in English Literature and Political Science because I was on that track. I got accepted to law school and looked at it and said, "I want to be a judge, but I don't want to be a lawyer." It's not in my nature to argue and have conflicts. I said, "What am I going to do now with degrees in English Literature and Political Science? I'm not for teaching. That's not my DNA." I went to business school and the marketing piece stood out. It made sense. It clicked. I love being able to make an impact right away and see the fruits of my labor, the marketing and sales business development piece clicked and made sense for me. From there, I went into that but for a technology provider.
Be Perfect: Believing In Ourselves: Getting Over That We Need To Be Perfect With Kacee Johnson
Why did you want to become a judge in the first place? Where were you watching judges? Was someone in your family a judge?
No, not at all. I've always been interested in the political side of things, so that made sense and seeing the way that they could enact change. I like to see that you're having an impact right away whether it be on a business or society. I don't want to say it's a power thing, because I don't think I'm not controlling but being able to help those that have been wronged. I'm very passionate about any abuses towards those that can't protect themselves. Child abuse, elder abuse, animal abuse or anything that. I don't want to say I want to punish those people, but I wanted to get in there because I felt they weren't being punished hard enough and make some change.
Being a woman and especially as a younger woman, it's a big goal to have. What did your mom do and your example with women growing up?
My mom is the strongest woman I know. I'm the only girl. I have two brothers. My father passed away when I was in junior high. It was always my mom doing double duty with all of us. She got married so young and she didn't go to college right out of high school and all of that. She took the family route and took care of us. After my dad died, she had to figure out a career for herself and now she's amazing. She works with the Department of Defense and she kicks butt, but it was a long, hard road for her especially me in junior high and high school seeing that. She was hard on me because of that too. A lot harder on me than my brothers because she was like, "Kacee, you're never going to be in the position that I put myself into." She was always big on education for all of us, but I could see they’ve got a pass on stuff. With me, it wasn't even an option if you're going to college. It was direct to the university. You don't even have a choice. I thank her for that now because it is a different position, but it has changed a lot since then and progressed.
That starts carving out your path like an example of your mom of how much she had a struggle for not doing that. Seeing the determination and creating success with all of that around, then it starts shifting and you’re like, "What do I do to myself?"
In her 40s having to rebuild and I remember her being very anxious and scared to go back to school, get any certifications, and advanced for learning but she had to. She did it and worked full-time while doing it and raising us. She was adamant. I was not going to live that. I can remember I was dating this guy one time in high school and she said something to me like, "You're going to end up just like me." I broke up with him the next day. It made an impact.
How old were you when your father passed away?
I was in seventh grade, so I was thirteen.
What did he do?
He owned a couple of auto body shops. My mom worked part-time. Once we were all in school, she worked part-time but she didn't have a full career.
Were your brothers working in the body shop with him or was anyone working in the business with him?
No, we were all too young. One of my brothers is a store manager for Sprouts. My other brother is a vice president of iReady and the programs that all the kids are using now working from home. It's put out by a company called Curriculum Associates. They're very successful. We all took different paths.
After college, where did you start going with the Marketing degree?
I had moved to San Diego and I saw an ad for a marketing position at a cloud computing company. Back then, I had no idea what cloud computing. It clicked for me and I'd always been into technology but cloud back then, it was ASP. Nobody knew exactly where it was going to go. It was a very small company. I like to have an impact and see-through driving things very quickly. It was a good run. I stayed there for about five years and we grew from 89 users to over 20,000.
That was the question I was going to go with about your dad's business. Have you ever thought about that with some of the work because you do focus a lot on the small business work and helping with the marketing having that perspective of him being a small business owner?
I never put that correlation together, to be honest, but there is some underlying thing there. Small businesses are what drives America and I've been part of large organizations and even right now working with the AICPA. It's a very large organization in 23 different countries but the entity that I get to work in CPA.com, they're very agile. I get to see things move quickly. I would get bored if I was part of a huge corporation and I was a number and I couldn't make an impact.
When you left college and started in these roles, what were some of your belief systems of what you thought it was going to be like versus what it was?
I had a lot of perceived notions that everybody else had it figured out. I was there as a sponge to learn from everyone. I learned very quickly that we're all lost and don't know what to do. We figured it out as we go. I was fortunate enough to have some good mentors that helped me through the way especially coming into a profession I knew nothing about. I understood the technology and how it could help but I didn't know a whole lot about accounting firms.
Did you reach out for those people to be mentors or did they reach out to you to help?
I look back on it and say I had three real strong mentors. Two of them found me and then one of them I got connected with through my former CEO.
What were some of the things that each of them taught you?
First, spending time with me helped me understand the accounting profession and why it's a profession, not an industry. The intricacies of a firm, how they work, the unique relationship between an accountant and their clients and how that's so different. All of those things, it's invaluable. The fact that they did it out of their hearts was quite nice. I understand the ecosystem too. I learned a lot from them on how different categories and technologies play together.
Being successful as a leader, what did you see from them as far as that you wanted to emulate?
More importantly, what they showed me was just because I'm not an accountant, it doesn't mean I can't have an impact in this profession. When I left Cloud9 years ago, I was questioning like, "Do I stay in the profession? I could do marketing and business development stuff anywhere. I don't necessarily need to stay here." I loved the community though and I questioned that I'm not an accountant. Those mentors helped me to see the unique value add that I bring that others can't and you don't need to have those certifications to have an impact.
As you've grown into these different roles and organizations especially as you've gone higher up the chain, are there any habits or patterns that you've had to break in yourself to shifts into those roles? It's a lot different from being a small business owner, having your own consulting versus working in corporate or being a subject matter expert in marketing versus leading initiatives. What were some big takeaways for you that you had to shift to create success?
One of the biggest shifts that I had to do was moving from being an executive at a company where you make all the decisions into being a consultant and advising people and having to let go of that control that you may say, "This is what that you should do." They're not always going to go that route. That's okay. Shifting, letting go and not having so many emotional ties to it because all of my clients, I always 100% wanted nothing but their success. I went into them almost as if it was my company. You treat your company as your baby. You get very protective and you want nothing but the best for it. There was a big shift in moving from that into a consultant role of having to give my advice and help them in every way I can, but not taking it personally and not getting emotionally invested if they go a different route.
When you look at your mom's story, having had her home for part of your life, starting to shift into work, then your career path of being a working mom, what things have you taken from your mom or learned from yourself to still create a very successful career but be able to emulate something that you still wanted from when you were younger?
The balance is always changing. You get the mom guilt when you're on the road as much as you and I are traveling. There are some issues that I'm still even trying to figure out there. I have seen that in my parenting, I still push Taylor, my daughter, that she doesn't have an option like me, “You're going to college and that's not even a choice thing.” I can see that I'm emulating my mom in that regard. I don't have any boys. She always tells my husband, "She's the CEO of our family and the house." She gets that strong leadership stuff and I like that. I want her to be strong. The balance is always going to be evolving. It's tough especially when you're on the road a lot. I have a great partner though.
How does that factor into your success?
I struggled a lot even leaving and coming to that decision. If it wasn't for his support and giving me the freedom to find my passion, I don't know if I would have. He supports me in anything all the time, even if it's going to make things harder on us as a family. He's that rock and more. I am a little up here living in my head and he grounds me.
No matter if you're a man or a woman, it can happen on both sides. Communication is important when you're trying to develop each of your careers. Your husband is a successful executive as well. How you balance that with each other and communicate is important or else that can be hard if you're both trying to achieve your career dreams at the same time as raising children.
We made an agreement to limit how much we talk about work when we're at home because we are both success-oriented and very type-A and driven people. We started to notice that so much of our conversation at home revolved around work and you lose a little bit of that personal connection with your spouse. We made a very constant decision of, "We're going to limit this." I work from home, but he drives a very long commute, 80 miles each way. He comes home and he wants to vent and I got to let him give that minute or two but you can't let it go and own your entire night. We're good about that now but it took some transition.
Especially in the age we're in right now with the virus happening but also in everyday life, it’s needing that time for yourself so that you can feel good and make sure that you are good for the people around you as well. How do you both fit that in?
This one I have to give a big thank you to you. I was going 100 miles an hour and not giving myself a whole lot of self-love or taking care of myself. You introduced me to Peloton. I've had it for one year. I block out on my schedule so nobody can put meetings in there and I have to work out. I love Pilates too. I go to a studio, not now that it’s close but hopefully, it'll reopen soon. That or a hike, whatever it may be. My husband knows if I've had a crazy day or I've been on the road a lot and haven't been able to exercise, he'll grab the dog's leashes and say, "Let's go for a walk." He'll get me out if I'm not doing it.
Your overall well-being is important and making sure that you stay successful in what you do at work or home because if you don't take that time, a lot of times people feel guilty to do that. When you talk about the mom guilt or work as many hours, but you don't show up as well as you want.
I have to do the same for him. I'll notice when he's burning out, his two biggest things are either going out on the boat. I'll go schedule on a boat day, we're going to get the boat, we're putting it on the lake, we're getting out there or I'll get a tee time. I have clubs. I am terrible at golf. I try but it's three of the nine holes. I do it for him to get him out there. If I make a tee time, I'll go and hit a few. He encourages me to do more.
With the things that you've learned over time from your life and through work, what do you do try to bring to people either coworkers or people that work for you to help them grow in their career from your life lessons?
I wonder sometimes if the universe is trying to make us slow down a little bit because we're all running a million miles an hour and trying to be everything to everyone and do everything.
It’s interesting right now that when things go away, what becomes important. Have you seen anything shift of what's important that you're surprised about versus not as important anymore?
Living in Southern California, we have a ton of traffic and everybody drives 90 miles an hour at all times. Nobody likes speeding. The roads aren't as congested anyway but they seem to be taking their time, nobody has anywhere to be. It's all slowed down so much. In general, how people are getting to places. The universe may be trying to get us all to take a deep breath, enjoy the moment a little bit, and slow down. I personally do. I'm not a hoarder. I am one of those people that does spring cleaning four times a year for every season. I don't understand the whole toilet paper thing. I don't know how much you cook at home, but I cook twice a week. For me to not be able to say, "Where do you want to go tonight for dinner?" Those little things you take for granted. I can't wait for the restaurants to open back.
Be Perfect: The universe is trying to make us slow down a little bit because we're all running a million miles an hour and trying to be everything to everyone.
I love that too. I like to do some rapid-fire questions at the conclusion of our interview. You pick a category. It’s either family and friends, money, spiritual or health.
Let's do health because that's the only thing getting me through it right now. We all need to be healthier right now.
Things or actions I don't have that I want?
I want to be able to do push-ups. I have very strong legs but a very weak upper body.
Things or actions that I do have that I want?
That would be anything to do with cycling and my Peloton. I'm never giving it up.
Things or actions that I don't have that I don't want as far as my health?
I don't want the Coronavirus.
Things or actions that I do have that I don't want?
I like to sit down and have a glass of wine at night and it slows me down with working out. I have an inkling towards more wine than I should. I’d like to cut that back.
Is there anything that you want to make sure people take away from this conversation that you want to conclude with?
I would say the biggest things that have made me who I am not holding yourself to some strict roadmap of you've got to hit these timelines based upon your age and everything else. I don't know why society puts that on us but let all that go. Number two, if you can find some great mentors, at least myself, I love to mentor others. I was fortunate to have some great mentors. Once you get to a point where you can give back, do that. Don't hold yourself to thinking that everybody else has it figured out and that you have to be perfect. Give yourself grace and that time for self-love. Everybody deserves it, especially in times like these.
Thank you very much for doing this interview with me and for sharing your story.
Thank you, Amy.
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It’s time for our Mindful Moment section of this episode with Kacee. I first wanted to delve into some of her family backgrounds and I think with a lot of us, we don’t realize how different stories in our life affect us. I thought it was interesting her story about her mother when her life changed in a drastic way of becoming a widow, how that changed her future but also changed Kacee’s as well. When you see the example of someone struggling and having to figure out their way in the world, then you get a better understanding of what you want for your future as well.
I think there was a push-pull between her and her mom of one, her mom having to figure this out for herself and the pull to Kacee of making sure that she never got herself in the same position. Having that vision of knowing what you do want is important. A lot of times, we don’t know the job that we want or the career that we want but we do know the outcome that we want. That can sometimes be easier to set a goal or a focus around versus trying to get to a certain title of a certain job that we have a vision in our head of what we want to achieve. If we can step back and create that vision for ourselves, it helps with putting together goals and plans for our future rather than being too specific on the things we want versus the feeling that we want to have or the environment that we want to create around us and possibly our families as well.
Like many of us, as we go through those career journeys which Kacee talked about, it shifts over time because as we try different roles and different jobs, we notice whether that fits with our values which is important to understand as far as what is important to us and do we align with the work that we do. Also, is it creating that outcome that we want? That shifted her and her career. She’s had a lot of success over time going into industries or professions that she didn’t have a background in. That was another important point for all of us to take in is that you might go into a new job or industry or profession that you have never been in before. Sometimes, when you are around people that are the experts, you think that there is no way that you could be successful in that role until you step back and listen to the problems and understand that problems as universal.
There are unique attributes of every different profession that we need to learn but the human issues and the business issues are typically very similar. I remember when I had my accounting practice, every time I’d sit down with a new small business, they would say how unique they were and so forth. As you sat and listen to those stories, you realize it might be in a different way that they were telling the story or different circumstances but the throughline was the same. Realizing that you don’t have to know everything to take on that next best role or take on some opportunity that you don’t think you are perfect at. What you have to be open to is learning and that’s where she demonstrated by going to mentors and honestly saying that you are not perfect. A lot of people go into jobs and think that they have to show up perfectly and they have to look perfect.
The problem is when we do, we don’t take in the learning that we need to do to be the most effective at our jobs. The other important thing that Kacee had as a takeaway was making sure that you don’t hold yourself to a strict roadmap. This comes back to vision. What is it that you want in a bigger sense? How do you want to feel? What do you want your life to look like? Allow the opportunities to come as they do throughout your life and be open to learning along the way. Find great mentors as you go and also make sure that you are giving back as a mentor as well. Realize that most of us as humans don’t have this figured out no matter what we’re putting out into the world. That we’re all learning and trying to be better. We are better together than alone.
Important Links:
@KaceeBOP – Twitter
Kacee Johnson - LinkedIn
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