Episode 31: The Toughest Stuff = The Greatest Reward With Sarah Elliott
Our belief system is shaped and influenced by a number of different factors. In this episode, Amy Vetter interviews Sarah Elliott, the Co-Founder of Intend2Lead and Founder of Ellivate Alliance, about how her belief systems evolved over time to give her the confidence to know she was enough just as she is and can do anything she set her mind to. Sarah shares her journey from engineering to becoming a CPA Firm Partner and the pivots she made along the way in her career.
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The Toughest Stuff = The Greatest Reward With Sarah Elliott
I’ll interview Sarah Elliott, Principal and Co-Founder of Intend2Lead and also the Founder of Ellivate Alliance, a women entrepreneur network of a like-minded community to accelerate their growth. Sarah helps accountants access the dimension of possible the place where fear is no longer the enemy and love reigns. She is an author, speaker, and instructor on coaching and leadership development and an advocate for women in the accounting profession. She has been recognized as 1 of the 25 most powerful women in accounting by AICPA and CPA Practice Advisor and 1 of the top 50 women in accounting by Practice Ignition. In this interview, we discuss her journey from chemical engineering to becoming a CPA firm partner and the pivots she has made along the way in her career. We discuss how her belief systems evolved over time to give her the confidence to know that she was enough as she is and can do anything that she sets her mind to.
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I'm interviewing Sarah Elliott from Ellivate Alliance and Intend2Lead. Sarah, do you want to give a little intro to yourself?
Thank you, Amy. I'm thrilled to be here. I'm the Cofounder of Intend2Lead. We, coach accountants, to access what we call the dimension of possible. We do that through leadership coaching, group learning and consulting with organizations to create coaching cultures. We do that in the accounting space. I'm also the Founder of the Ellivate Alliance of which you are a part. Together we help women entrepreneurs build heart-based businesses from the inside out. We provide inspiration, practical knowhow and community to accelerate their growth.
Thank you so much for coming on. You're a good friend besides a colleague. We got to know each other a few years ago but clicked fast. Part of that is we have similar backgrounds and you being a CPA and having been a firm partner before, you made pivots in your career. I'd love to go back and understand some of your backgrounds. Maybe you can share some stories a little bit about your parents, how you grew up and how you started on this path in the first place.
I was born in Ohio, but my parents are British. I am the firstborn American in my entire family. My parents came to the US and my dad started a business here. They believe in the American dream. They wanted to create something they didn't have a lot of means when they immigrated. My dad built a successful business. I grew up with that and seeing him and my mom, seeing them create this life out of almost nothing except for who they are and their values when they first moved to the US was incredible. It's embedded within me in some ways that I'm probably not even conscious of. Maybe I had that entrepreneurial bug since childhood and it didn't come up until a few years ago.
That's interesting because my grandparents were immigrants, on either 2nd or 3rd generation, but the same thing coming from that background and bootstrapping it. The way they felt about being Americans is a unique thing to grow up with. We take it for granted when we're born American versus once someone earned being American. What kind of business did he have?
He was in oil and gas. They created flow computers to measure oil and gas, worked with all the major oil companies and pipelines. I grew up outside of Houston, in the suburbs of Houston, but he's since retired. I'm doing other good work. He and my mom do work for a food pantry at their parish.
You have no accent whatsoever growing up with people with an accent.
My parents, I don't even think they have that much of an accent because they've been in the US for many years. You would think they have an accent.
I remember meeting them and was surprised they had an accent because you don't.
I grow up in the Midwest. My first five years were in Ohio, so I had that. I moved to Texas and everyone thinks I should have a Texan accent. I'm agnostic on the accent front.
Belief Systems: People look to you as a technical leader not only because you're strong with the technical skills, but also because you bring the human skills to the table.
Was your mom a stay-at-home mom or did she work in the business as well?
She was a stay-at-home mom. She did some part-time jobs when we were growing up as well to make ends meet. Growing up, we know starting a business from scratch is tough on the finances. I remember my childhood, it's not like we struggled. We weren't destitute or anything. Certainly, things were a bit tight, so she definitely helped out where she could.
Tell me about your path then. Growing up in the oil and gas industry, seeing your dad as an entrepreneur and your mom as a stay-at-home mom, what started driving you? What did you want to be when you grew up?
I looked at what I thought I was good at. I remember in high school looking to college thing, “I'm good at science and math, so I should be an engineer,” because essentially that's what my dad is. They did have an engineering business. That's what my older sister is. She's in petroleum engineering. I thought, “Engineering, that makes sense.” I decided to be a chemical engineer because I was good at chemistry and math. It worked theoretically. I went to Texas A&M and started my Chemical Engineering degree. Three years in and thinking, “I hate this.”
I wouldn't go to class. Somehow, I squeaked by with some fees because everything was an open book. It was hard and it was abstract to me. It’s not interesting to me. I decided, “Do I want to do this for the rest of my life? Is there a way I could make this not something that I hate?” I thought about getting a minor in Business. It was my senior year when I started business classes. I took Intro to Financial Accounting, and it clicked like nothing else after Chemical Engineering classes. That did not click on any level.
The financial accounting, everything, debit is great equals credits. There was a sense of balance, order, and logic. It was a puzzle, but you could fit the pieces together. That second semester of my senior year, I said, “It's not too late. I can shift my path.” I changed my major and I did my whole Accounting degree like whatever I have left to make up in 1.5 years. I ended up graduating in five years with a Bachelor's and 186 credit hours. I had enough hours to sit for the CPA exam. I was set.
Usually, when you're that far into it, you're like, “I'll go down this path.” What made you say, “I need to stop?”
Talk about breaking beliefs, many of us believe that I’m on this path and I'm supposed to do this. It's laid out for me. I like to think I'm a compliant person. I do things right. These are a lot of beliefs that I've broken through, but I care what people think. It was hard to make that shift because I did not want to let my family down. There's this idea that I've invested so much to this point. Am I willing to walk away from that? I looked forward and I said, “What is my life going to look like?” I do not like the work of Chemical Engineering. In that story too, I did a summer internship at a refinery in a smaller town in Oklahoma. Every day I was wearing steel-toed boots, a hard hat and these fire-retardant Nomex things over my clothes. I was climbing on heat exchangers and climbing up these distillation towers. That brought it home for me.
Until you did a physical inventory though. They don't tell you that in accounting school either. You're climbing across cars or being put in a coal mine.
I didn't last that long.
I got put in a freezer with chickens. I’m like, “Why did no one tell me about this?”
That's not what you expect. That brought it home for me. Is this the work I want to do? When I’m living for three months in environments that could be my future. It gave me that opportunity to look forward instead of looking back. It's easy to think about, “What have I invested?” I don't want to walk away from that, but look at how much life is ahead. Is this what I wanted my life to look like? It was not. Once that became clear to me, the next hurdle was sharing that with my parents. I was nervous because you invest so much. Some part of me wanted their approval and, “Is this okay?”
It was the eve of my 22nd birthday and I was at their house because it was spring break. I wrote a letter to my parents. I poured my heart out about how I felt. I said, “I want you to know me and this isn't right for me. I'm not sure what it is yet, but I need to explore. I ask for your support in that.” I slipped the letter under their door. It was after midnight so I couldn't get it back. It's been officially my birthday. I wake up in the morning like, “How are they going to greet me when I come downstairs for breakfast?”
Because that was your father's career as well. It wasn't changing it. You're going against what he had hoped for you to have too.
I was busting out of the family norms, even my sister. I was greeted that morning with love and well wishes for my birthday. My dad's request was, “Do something different. Let’s make sure that it makes sense and that you're thinking about it.” It was the next year that I changed my major. That's when I had the minor in Business maybe and decided to switch. It's funny because looking back it was a blip. It's funny to share this story.
At that time, it feels huge.
It was a big deal. It gives you perspective in your life.
There's so much perspective there because it's not that you made the shift. It's the way your parents supported you through that. Not everyone has that support, especially when they're helping to fund it or whatever. They probably were like, “We want this over.” You're saying, “I'm going to add another year.” Even though you're working hard and they know you're working hard, that's amazing on their part too though to want happiness for you.
It was this shared thing, some taking on the extra year was student loans. I have three different part-time jobs over that year. I was talking about eighteen hours a semester in summer school and correspondence to try to get my degree done. They expected me to step up too. It was good. They did good parenting. It’s a good example for me. I remember that with my own son, who's five now.
Where did you go from there?
I started in the big four. I worked with PWC. I was all audit in the Austin office. I was there for about eight years. I did a two-year rotation at the national office. I was in auditing services. I lived in New York. The national office for PWC was in Florham Park, New Jersey. I did a reverse commute for a couple of years. It’s a lot of fun, neat experience with engagement teams all around the country, supporting them, undergoing PCOB inspections and consulting with firms about audit policy, methodology and all sorts of fun stuff. It was a unique and challenging experience. My whole time at PWC was challenging. I felt like I always got hard jobs. That's where you learn and grow.
I moved back to Austin after my national office rotation because I met my husband, Brandon, five weeks before moving to New York. When I moved to New York, I sold my house. I was never coming back here. I was a single gal. I was like, “The whole world is my oyster.” I meet a guy who's born and raised in Austin five weeks before I leave. He convinces me to come back. I'm grateful that turned out the way it did. It's interesting because when you go the long distances like that, it accelerates the relationship because you're staying together on these visits. You're getting to know someone. It's not something that you play around with or you don't normally have a fling across the country. We got to know one another well and fast. He convinced me to come back here to Austin.
I was still with PWC at that time, but there weren't a ton of opportunities in the Austin office to make a firm that big. Relatively speaking, Austin at that time at least was a fairly small office. I left and joined a smaller midsize firm, PMB Helin Donovan. I was there four years and almost two of those years, I was a partner. That's where I made a partner. I was also the national audit partner in charge. I was a new partner. The youngest partner, the national audit pitch was an interesting combo, but it was great. It was hard and gave me some incredible leadership challenges to work through. The biggest one for me was my confidence, “Am I the right person for this role? Am I good enough?” Over time, I learned that I was a good fit for that role.
Belief Systems: Lean into your strengths and understand what those are, but just because you're good at something doesn't mean that's what you should do either.
Why?
I brought a different perspective to the table. What I learned about myself over the years was people would look to me as a technical leader because I was strong with the technical skills, but I also brought the human skills to the table in a deep way. I care about people. I cared about the people that I worked with and was excited to be part of building something with them. I saw potential in them, who they could be, who they were true. To be able to help cultivate that in another human being and see who they can become, what they can do and how they can shape the firm brought me a lot of joy.
It's important. I worked at KPMG. When I started as an assistant auditor, I remember looking at the managers and the partners like, “I will never be that smart. There's no way. I'll never know what they know.” There is that path of understanding what your strength is, which is important for you to bring out because I was never the best person technically. I knew enough to get the job done, but I was a good leader on a job to get the work done on time to client service, all that stuff. I was FAS 121, but I was dealing with loan resurfacing. It was complicated. My manager came in and put the new regulation on my desk and said, “You need to read this.” I pushed it back to him. I'm like, “I will run this job like nobody else. You give me the cliff notes.” I knew I would fall asleep if I read that.
You played your strengths.
You have to figure it out and have a relationship with whoever you're working for. I wasn't being belligerent. By that point, you know what you're good at. I know what he's good at. We got to work to our strengths and not try to push someone to do something like, “You try to get me to read that, I will not be able to interpret it.” From a business perspective, once I start working it, I understand it, but I can never read the textbook and understand it.
You remind me of another important thing that I want to bring up, which is lean into your strengths and understand what those are, but also that just because you're good at something, it doesn't mean that's what you should do either. I was technically strong and people would give me more and more of that technical work and make me read that stuff. I could read it, interpret it and apply it, but I hated it. Over time, that's also what I started to realize was it's not just what I'm good at, but it's what brings me joy, energy and how would my life shift if I leaned into the things that brought me the joy and the energy? What if I could do the things that I love most about my role as a leader? What if I could do that all the time? How would life change? That was the spark of me deciding to leave the practice of public accounting was I started to see this alignment between who I am and those unique gifts that I can give to the world. Aligning that with the needs that I saw in the profession and saying, “I could go out there and make a difference. I can make a much bigger impact in a profession versus my firm.”
That takes time. For younger people, it's hard because I know it was hard for me to go into it that. I was like, “I don't like this.” You have to put in your time so you know what you are good at. I would keep being put on hard jobs because I could get them done. From an operational perspective, understand them enough to do a good job. You're being forced into things. Every day you're waking up like, “I don't like this. I don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy what I'm talking about or the work.” It's also knowing that along the way of where your weaknesses are and not trying to act like those aren't your weaknesses as well. Some of us have that confidence issue or we're afraid to say what we're not good at. In order to learn exactly what you're saying is what's going to give you joy. You have to go through those parts and put that time in or else you have no idea what you like or what opportunity will come the way that you wouldn't have expected.
I'm a big believer that the toughest stuff is some of the greatest rewards. They can teach you so much. Even if you don't end up doing that for the rest of your life, it provides opportunities for you. It expands your opportunities there. Think about what we're going through is reflective in the world. It’s an opportunity for immense growth, for personal growth, innovation, new ways of connecting and looking at who we are and what we want for our lives. The world is giving us this opportunity where we have to look within almost.
You also notice what you're ignoring in your life as well because of the busyness. Everyone's being forced in. You have to review and you're spending time with people you've had no time to spend time with or reaching out to people to have a connection that you never have time to. Those little gifts in it as well of like, “How do you maintain the good stuff out of this when it continues?” You have a lot of experience leaving. You needed that experience. You have much more longevity than most people in those firms. That big pivot you made in college and to make a big pivot to leave as a partner in a CPA firm and take a risk as an entrepreneur, what was the evolution of that change for you?
The other part I didn't say was when I made the leap into entrepreneurship, I was five months pregnant. It was 2013, I was a new partner. I was working with a coach and the partner invested in some of us to have one-to-one coaching. She started to ask me big questions about who I am, what matters to me and what do I want. It's easy in life to get caught up in the busy doing day-to-day. People don't often ask us. How often do we ask ourselves, “Who am I? What do I want?” Even that question, “What do I want? What strengths do I have?” I started getting more introspective. I joined a mastermind group with some incredible entrepreneurs here in Austin who are dear friends and mentors now. I started surrounding myself with these people who were taking risks, making leaps who believed in possibility.
I started meditating. I created a morning routine. I go all-in on things when I do them. I was like, “This sounds good exercise, meditation, gratitude practice.” It was like I woke up. I realized I've been living a lot of my life on default waiting for things to happen or following a path that had been tread before me. I didn't realize how much I was missing. It wasn't that one path. There was this whole world around me. It was like I woke up and decided I want to be intentional with my life and what I want to create. When I started to see that alignment and understand myself better, what I want and what I wanted to give and the difference I wanted to make, that fueled me to make that leap to walk away from security, safety and a career I had built for fourteen years. I'd finally made it or whatever in some traditional terms. I saw more possibilities available. It became harder to think of staying than taking the leap. It was a gradual shift, but it probably happened over about 1.5 years.
How did that partner feel after they invested in that?
That's a question I get. I want to be clear for that 1.5 years that I was still there, I invested a lot in that firm. I remember that I worked with a coach on business development. I was the number two partner in sales that year that I left and I was still selling until the day that I left. They still have clients that I brought in. I do work for that firm now. They did get a lot. They’ve got a huge ROI on their investment. I still like to think everybody benefited from that. It's a funny question. I don't think they regret it. Coaching is like when you open up someone's potential, the impact that they can have on an organization and beyond is huge.
How did entrepreneurship start for you? Was it good? Was it hard? What were some things you learned about yourself that were unexpected?
It was fun. It was exhilarating at the beginning. It was also unknown. It's funny because I had more confidence than I realized. I've been working with businesses for many years. I've been part of running an organization, a firm of 120 people. I know something about business. Running a small business and starting it from scratch, I was like, “I know nothing.” It was humbling but also exciting because I was learning fast. It’s connecting with people. It took longer to take off than I thought it would. It took me longer to figure out like, “What do I want to give? What is my business?” I thought it was one thing. I thought I was a consultant.
I was also five months pregnant. I'm trying to get clients, which was slower. It took longer than I thought it would. I went and had a baby. It was two weeks before Ethan was born, I decided to go back to school to become a coach. That was still part of my evolution. I said, “I want to go all-in on this. I want to dig in and go to school for a year and do this.” I found myself going to school in the evenings, being a new mom and all that entailed and also building a business. Continuing to build one that was struggling at the beginning and it was a ton of learning all at the same time. I was also recreating this whole life of mine to fit all these new things into it.
It was fun. It was hard. There were moments when I was crying and I felt like there were some moments of despair of, “Why is this so hard? Will I make it? Did I screw this up? Financially, how is our family? How are we going to pay the mortgage next month?” Those moments were hard. Looking back, that was a few years ago that I started this journey. I'm glad that I didn't give up. We are in a different place and it was worth it. It was part of that evolution of trying things and learning. I wish I would have given myself a little more grace back then in space to explore. I always felt like I had to figure it out right away. What exactly is the business? What's my messaging? It shifted a lot. I traded a whole other business with Brian Cush, my incredible partner in Intend2Lead. We created that business a year after I was on my own. I rebranded and totally shifted to the Ellivate Alliance. It continues to be an evolution.
An important point in there, and as hard as this is when we take on new things that were not part of our expertise, the fact that you have to go sideways or even backward a little bit to learn and not try to be something you're not. Going back and getting the coaching certification or education where you could push forward without it, but making that investment and slowing down to speed up is an important thing as you go through your journey. Throughout your journey, what is something that you've learned about yourself over time that's shifted in your belief systems from when you began to what you're doing now and that you impart to others?
Speaking of breaking beliefs, an old belief that I had that I broke through and continue to break through in layers is this belief that my value and my worth as a human being is defined outside of me by the things I do, by what I accomplish, what people think of me, the money I make, the title I have, whatever. I used to feel like I had to prove myself to be worthy. I would drive myself into the ground sometimes like working so hard to prove that I was good enough. That's an ongoing journey. The new belief that I'm embracing and learning to embrace day by day is that I am worthy and valuable as I am. My opinion of who I am matters more than anyone else's and that I matter as anyone else does. I do have something special to give to the world. Even if it terrifies me sometimes, just keep going. It's an ongoing journey. It has layers. I feel like I'm always finding another layer to work through.
Belief Systems: Your value and worth as a human being is defined outside of you: by what you accomplish, what people think of you, the money you make, the title you have.
We're going to close with some rapid-fire questions and you pick a category. It's family and friends, money, spirituality or health.
Spiritual.
Things or actions that I don't have that I want?
Self-compassion and unconditional love for me.
Things or actions I do have that I want?
A deep belief that all is well. I'm where I'm supposed to be. I believe we’re all we're supposed to be and that brings peace.
Things or actions that I don't have that I don't want?
What do you not want spiritually? Sometimes people see being spiritual as aesthetic, severe self-discipline and withholding things. I don’t want that. I love living in the world and enjoying and embracing the spiritual and the human side of life.
Last one, things or actions that I do have that I don't want?
The self-doubt and the harsh inner critic that I have. I'm very idealistic and I expect the ideals of myself.
Is there anything you want to make sure leaving this conversation that people leave with or understand about you?
Maybe it's not about me, but about you, the collective you. I believe that each of us is the creator of our life, be conscious of that. We're gifted this precious life that we were given so spend time exploring who you are and not who you think you're supposed to be, what you want and choose to create something amazing with the life that you have no matter what your circumstances are now.
Thank you so much for joining me and sharing your story, Sarah.
Thank you for having me, Amy.
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For our Mindful Moments, Sarah's journey is an interesting one. Many of us can relate in our careers of what we thought we wanted when we were younger because we're modeling ourselves after our parents or people that we see that are close to us. Once we get into learning more about it, we're clear that it may not be the right fit for us and what we do about that. I thought it was amazing that Sarah in college made the shift that she did from chemical engineering to accounting. When you're at that stage of finishing something, it's hard to make that decision to pivot. As much as she talks about lacking the confidence that she needed, it took a lot of confidence to make that shift.
There's something inside of us, our gut, that tells us when something feels off and when something doesn't feel right. It's important that we listen to that no matter what age we are at, even when it's uncomfortable. Like Sarah talked about, whether it's financially uncomfortable or the timing is uncomfortable, but there's something telling us that we can't explain that something needs to shift in order for us to be happy. The problem is when we keep pushing against something that is making us unhappy, we can drive ourselves to not feeling well to ignoring our lives or ignoring how we're going about our career or personal life and not being honest with ourselves because it's a harder choice.
Her example of doing this at such a young age and doing this again as a CPA firm partner is an important exercise for all of us to go through. It’s asking those questions that her coach had asked her many years ago when they were talking to her and the accounting firm of those questions of, “Who am I? What do I want? What strengths do I have and what weaknesses do I have?” I might have weaknesses that I am having to do every day in my career or my home life that aren't aligning with what creates joy for me. It's important for us to figure those things out so that we can create the right goals for ourselves and give ourselves that roadmap of where we want to be.
It may not happen immediately, but when we have that vision, it can help us to know even when things aren't great, that we will get past it. That there's a longer-term vision of what we want our life to look like or what we want to feel internal and what we can do to get there. The important part of all this, which Sarah talked about, is that we can go through the life of allowing life to happen to us without being intentional about how we choose to go through life, how we choose our career, our personal life, whatever that is, or things that we do for ourselves, for our own self-care.
When we're not intentional, we can start feeling off. When we move to an intentional way of living, we put practices in place. As Sarah said, she started meditating. She started having a morning routine or a gratitude practice to shift that energy, which can help us in times like these that are unprecedented or any other time in our life that we might not feel our best or life isn't going the way that we had hoped to still find the positives in life so that we can also find possibility.
If we accept anything that's negative and define that as part of our life, we will go down the road of negativity rather than looking at opportunity and possibility. When we open ourselves up to opportunity, doors start opening for us. It doesn't mean everything is successful, but what we can do is at least peek through those doors, maybe put our toe through the door and make sure that this might be something that we might want to do or maybe not want to do, but give it a try.
When we're in those moments of despair that Sarah talked about when we make a decision like starting a business or making any life change and things are bad. How do we go back to that long-term vision rather than getting stuck in the swirling mind or tearing ourselves down, where we don't give up and instead we keep trying new things? We keep learning new things until we find the thing that sticks and makes sure that we can help ourselves shift the way that our life is going. That we can intentionally make those changes and know that we have value, that we have worth in being who we are. That it doesn't matter what people see externally or what the gossip is because gossip comes and goes. What is important is that you have a belief in yourself that you are worthy as you are, that you matter and you do have something special to give to the world.
Important Links:
https://www.LinkedIn.com/company/10658504/ - Intend2Lead
https://www.LinkedIn.com/company/16215893/ - Ellivate Alliance
@SElliott99 – Twitter
@EllivateWomen - Twitter
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