Episode 93: Don't Overthink What You Want: It Never Hurts To Ask With Kara Fitzgerald
If you don’t know what career path you’ll take, don’t overthink what you want. Why not give yourself the time to explore the opportunities around you? After all, it never hurts to ask. Amy Vetter’s guest today is Kara Fitzgerald, the President and CEO at Tennessee Society of Certified Public Accountants. Kara shares with Amy her stories and experiences of how she ended up becoming the President of her organization. If you’re struggling to find your career path, join in the conversation and you’ll realize the many opportunities surrounding you. It’s a matter of pushing yourself out there no matter how uncomfortable it is. Tune in!
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Don't Overthink What You Want: It Never Hurts To Ask With Kara Fitzgerald
Welcome to this episode of the show where I interview Kara Fitzgerald, the President and CEO of the Tennessee Society of Certified Public Accountants, the premier professional association for Certified Public Accountants in Tennessee. She is responsible for carrying out the mission of TSCPA, and works in partnership with the TSCPA Board of Directors and Council to develop and execute the society's strategic vision. She is always working to promote, protect and support the CPA profession in Tennessee.
She also works with various committees and represents the membership with various governmental entities, including the Tennessee State Board of Accountancy, the Tennessee Department of Revenue and the Tennessee General Assembly. She is a licensed CPA in the State of Tennessee and earned the Certified Association Executive Credential, which is the marker of a committed association professional who has demonstrated the wide range of knowledge essential to manage an association in today's challenging times.
She also holds the credential of Chartered Global Management Accountant. She is a member of the TSCPA, the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, the Tennessee Society of Association Executives, and the American Society of Association Executives. During our discussion, Kara and I talked about her journey from public accounting all the way through to becoming an executive with the Tennessee Society of CPAs. Learn her journey from when she began as a dancer to deciding that she was good at Math and becoming an accountant, and then how she asked for what she wanted to achieve the success that she has now.
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I'm here with Kara Fitzgerald, the President and CEO of the Tennessee Society of CPAs. Kara, do you want to get us started and give a little bit of background on yourself?
I'm the President and CEO of TSCPA. I assumed this position in April 2021, but I've been here ten years prior to that, so I'm familiar with the organization. I was born and raised outside of Nashville, Tennessee. I grew up in a pretty traditional family with my mom, dad and older sister. My parents are high school sweethearts. They're still married. I had a good childhood. I did not grow up around CPAs, but I became a CPA and I've made this my career.
What did your parents do? What were their occupations?
From the time I was five until he retired, my dad worked for a large automobile manufacturer. My mom was primarily a stay-at-home mom throughout my life. There were times throughout my life where she worked primarily retail. When I think about that now, looking back, it was probably because there were specific needs. There were cars that needed to be bought or college to pay for or things like that. Primarily, especially when I was younger, she was a stay-at-home mom. My dad traveled a lot. He would travel to Japan, and that was how it was throughout my entire life. That was the norm.
How many brothers and sisters?
I have one older sister. She is a kindergarten teacher. I could not do her job given in 2020. I certainly look up to her in what she does as an educator.
With your mom being responsible for a lot alone, what kinds of things did you start seeing in your mom or maybe learning from her during those times?
The ability to handle anything. The things that stood out when my dad was gone to Japan were the times that the pipes froze and our back windshield got shot out by a BB gun by the neighbor kid. It would always happen when my dad wasn't there and she dealt with it. I don't remember her ever not handling things well. She is a pretty strong individual and still is, and handled it all with a lot of grace.
In your childhood, were there certain interests or hobbies that you had?
My sister and myself both grew up dancing our young lives. We took ballet at the National School of Ballet, and that was a very big part of our life. My mom spent a great deal of time running us from our small town outside of Nashville to Downtown Nashville for ballet classes. It seems like my parents always gave me opportunities to do whatever. I did piano and Girl Scouts. I always had opportunities to try different things. Now, I think back, I'm sure sometimes that was probably difficult for them. We were a pretty average middle-class family, but there were lots of opportunities to try different things. I've tried to do that with my kids too. That was an important part of my childhood.
What did you enjoy about dancing when you think back on it?
I still love it. I personally have a comfort level. If I'm up in front of a large group, I'm comfortable with that. It pushes me out of my comfort zone to be in smaller groups, whether that's presenting or one-on-one, but to be up on a stage, performing in ballet was not scary at all to me. It seemed natural.
Why do you think that is? The reason I ask is my son from the time he was young had somewhat of a stutter, but if he sings and the stutter would go away. I remember we went to London on vacation and he started mimicking the British accent. He wouldn't stutter because he was thinking ahead. What do you think it is about performing in front of a large group that doesn't bother you as much versus one-on-one? Is it because it's more planned out or rehearsed?
It's like there's power in numbers for whatever reason. I've always been that way. I took a lot of Speech Classes in college, but I feel like I've been like that pretty much from a young age. I did 4-H growing up. I would go do speeches for 4-H and in front of big groups or classes. It has never bothered me, but I don't know why. That would be an interesting thing to explore.
It's interesting because the things that we don't even realize, we're looking out for as we get older to surround ourselves or pivot from something that makes us uncomfortable. How do you get past it? With what you do, it takes a lot of one-on-ones.
This position, prior to becoming the CEO of TSCPA, has certainly pushed me outside of that comfort zone because there are lots of opportunities. It's a relationship business. It's about building relationships and engagement. It's a matter of pushing yourself out of that. No matter how uncomfortable it is, sometimes we have to be uncomfortable. It has gotten easier, but it's still not 100%. I wouldn't say it comes naturally now. My predecessor, Brad Floyd, was the CEO of TSCPA. He gave me lots of opportunities to push myself beyond those boundaries and that comfort zone. That was the best thing that he could have done for me.
What did he do to do that thing?
He was giving me opportunities to lead meetings and go meet with firm leaders across the State of Tennessee. We had lots of honest conversations about that. That was not necessarily where I was most comfortable. Now, I'm grateful that he has given me those opportunities.
It does take someone seeing those vulnerabilities to try to help push you in a direction that maybe you don't see yourself. You did dancing. It's time to go to college. Why did you choose Accounting? What did you initially choose?
Growing up, I wanted to be a teacher. Every girl teacher seems like it, so I said, "I'll be a teacher." For a short period of time, I took a career test. In seventh grade, I said, "I should be a lawyer. Maybe I'll go to law school." That didn't last long in class in high school. I had always enjoyed Math. Now, I know that you don't necessarily have to be good at Math to become a CPA, but as a 16 or 17-year-old, I thought, "I've always been good at Math. I like the Accounting class that I took in high school." When I went to college, I said, "I'm going to major in Accounting." I never changed it. I stuck with it.
What was your path with it? Where did you start off?
Late in my junior or early in my senior year of college, I found a lot of opportunities. A professor would take a group of us to a firm in Nashville. We would visit what's now a Big Four firm or a regional firm. I went to one particular firm and it felt right like, "I can see myself working here." Early in my senior year, we were doing mock interviews for practice. I happened to get paired up with a partner from this firm that I thought I wanted to work for my mock interview. I still laugh because this is very uncharacteristic of me this forward.
I went into this mock interview with the mindset of, "I'm going to go in and tell them I want to work there. I'm going to get a job." I did that. I said, "I visited your firm. I felt at home there and I would love an opportunity to come to work for you." I went back and they said, "We'll see what we can do." By September of my senior year, I was graduating in the spring, I had a job offer. It certainly made the senior year a little bit easier to know I had that lined up and went to work for the firm. Pretty early on in college, I had said, "That's where I'm going to go to."
What You Want: We're all here serving our members. Whether you're in a professional association or any organization, you're here to serve your customers.
Isn't that interesting that you did that, but how important it is to ask for what you want? Have you found yourself do that at other times?
It's not as good of an example as that. To back up, I went from public accounting. I spent a couple of years there and then went to work for a large healthcare company. I spent a few years there before I got married and moved to Florida. In Florida, I was looking for a new job. At that time, I responded to an ad in the newspaper, which makes me sound older than I think because nobody looks for jobs in the newspaper anymore.
I responded to an ad in the newspaper for an Accounting Manager at the Florida Institute of CPAs. In the back of my mind, I thought, "I would like to work there. I'm a CPA. I had nonprofit clients when I was in public accounting and they were always my favorite clients to work for." I kept going back to, "I wish they would call." I called them and said, "I submitted my resume. I haven't heard back." I ended up getting to go in for an interview and got the position. I spent a few years there until I eventually moved back to Nashville.
Now I think back if I wouldn't have made that phone call and said I'm interested, that's what connected me. When I moved back to Nashville, that connected me to the Tennessee Society of CPAs that has now provided the opportunity that I've had and now to lead this organization. It's funny to look back at what was a very insignificant action at that time, paved the way for where I'm at now.
It was Boyd Search from Georgia that I interviewed. You had a similar situation where he wasn't getting a response back. This interview was a while back, but it's funny it's similar. Maybe it was to the highest society originally. He submitted his resume, but he didn't hear back. He was getting frustrated that he wasn't hearing back from them. He called there and they were like, "You didn't put your contact information on your resume. We wanted to contact you." Thank goodness he called where he would have felt sitting there offended. There are many things that we have no idea on the other side of why they're not calling or why not take the chance.
It's very similar to my experience, although I hope I didn't leave in front.
I thought it was such a funny story. He was taking a shot at something he had never done before and then, in the process, forgot an important piece of information.
In those instances, it's probably in both those examples in college and then FICPA. It's like, "What do I have to lose?" It's like, "I have nothing to lose. I have everything to gain." Sometimes in my day-to-day life, I certainly overthink things but in those instances, it's like, "Why not?"
As a parallel to what you're talking about with being uncomfortable, more one-on-one versus in a group, you still got to put yourself out there to get what you need too. What's the worst that can happen? It's to understand like, "What's your limit of the worst that can happen? How much am I willing to risk?" Go from there. What kind of job did you take with the Tennessee Society when you started there?
With the TSCPA or FICPA?
Once you went from FICPA.
When I came to the TSCPA, I started out as Director of Finance and got to shadow the person who had been in that position for around 30 years. That was a huge blessing to get to learn from her. I moved into CFO, and then eventually taking on more of an operational role, Vice President of Operations. It's taking me outside of that comfort zone of accounting and looking at the entire operations and all that we do for our members. Certainly, both my role with the FICPA and TSCPA have helped me to have a greater appreciation for the value of an organization. I have been a member for a long time, but it helps you to understand the value of any professional association no matter what your profession is.
It's also an important lesson as far as for accountants as well that are going into advisory services or when you're talking to accounts about that is we can get focused on just the finance department. I'm sure in your role as a CFO, once you started getting into operations, you're like, "This is a different story." What are some things that you learned that might have changed your perspective?
I'll go back early in my career. When I left accounting, I went to work for Cigna Healthcare. That was the first time that I saw you have to work as one organization. I was working with claims, processors, customer service reps, IT and compliance, and putting that whole picture together. Certainly, that experience working there has helped me to transition into that operational role here at TSCPA.
The one thing I've learned is that we're all here serving our members. That's no matter whether you're in a professional association or any organization. You're here to serve your customers. It takes everybody working together from the communications folks to the technology folks. In our case, the education department to make everything work together and provide a good customer experience.
With that, you said the prior CEO was helping you train to eventually succeed him. Was that something that you discussed for a while?
It was not something that was even on my radar. When I came to work here in 2011, I was at that time looking for a position that would provide me a little bit better balance, brain work and family responsibilities. It certainly did that. I had no aspirations that I was going to go to work at the TSCPA and eventually become the President and CEO. I'm fortunate that he saw potential in me, and we talked about it for years leading up to it. He provided me tremendous opportunities to help to prepare me to take on that role.
When he first brought it up to you, what was that conversation? What were your initial thoughts about it?
“Can I do it? Am I the right person?” We were a lot alike in a lot of ways. I don't think he would mind me saying that. We were fairly similar, but we were very different in a lot of ways too. He had been here for 43 years when he retired. Comparing what I would bring the position to what he had after 43 years was hard for me to even fathom that I could do this position. He brought it up early enough that I had time to get comfortable in the prospect of having the role and start to believe in myself that I could do it.
What was the shift? When did you start believing that you could?
I started to feel like I had developed a relationship with members because it is a relationship business. When I started to feel like, "I've developed this relationship, I understand their needs. They understand our organization. I can convey the value of TSCPA and identify their needs," that's when it started to click that I can bring something to this organization. I can help to move us into the future.
As you started making a transition into being a CEO, talk about how you plan for a transition like that and what you thought versus what reality was once you took the position.
I have to say the pandemic certainly impacted that because the selection process was happening right at the height of the pandemic in 2020. I was appointed to the position in November 2020. It became effective in April of 2021. The pandemic shifted everything. Anything that I would have planned of how I would have handled that transition got thrown out because we were in survival mode.
From the beginning, in thinking about taking on the position, I thought I had to have a clear vision of where I see the organization and our leadership on board with that vision. That became important in communicating that and getting a plan in place to get the staff and the leadership on board. I've had tremendous support in that area. I feel like that's going well.
The thing that I don't think I was prepared for being in a position, especially as operational and working so closely with the directors of our organization, I don't think I was prepared for the shift to not be in the day-to-day weeds. Another peer of mine at another state society said it very well. She said, "It can be a lonely position, Kara."
I don't mean that in a bad way at all, but when you have that transition into a different type of leadership role, it can feel a little bit lonely. I would have never used that word, but when she used it, I'm like, "I do feel that way from time to time." I don't think I was prepared for that, but then acknowledging it, "I can get over that," it's a shift in your mindset.
What You Want: We have to learn about each other and learn how to work together.
What things did you do to shift your mindset with it?
I have a good relationship. I hope my staff would agree with our staff here. Thinking, "I haven't handed off more to them to handle the day-to-day than what I used to do," absolutely, but reminding myself constantly that I helped just as my predecessor helped to prepare me to take on this role. Hopefully, I have helped to prepare them to take on the roles that they're in now. Instead of looking at it, "I'm lost. I'm not involved," I used to be looking at it at a proud stance that I prepared them to be able to do that to take on some of those responses.
That's a very important shift. It's hard for a lot of people to not micromanage in leadership roles because they're like, "I know the way I did it and that's the way." How do you help people learn and grow, and advise them on different ways they could do it rather than trying to have everyone do that?
Do it the exact same way I would do it.
With the team that you have, is it mostly people that you've worked with prior or have you had to bring in new people?
It's a combination. A few of our leadership team have been long-term employees here. In the end, we have hired a new COO to take on the position I had previously. He is brand new to the organization. We've added some other new staff as well to expand upon some of the skillsets that we needed.
How do you go about hiring? You've got your comfort level with people you worked with and then bringing someone new. With you not doing the work, what are you looking for now in the platform?
I have to remind myself it's a gradual process, that this transition is going to take quite some time. It's not something that's going to happen overnight. We have to learn about each other and learn how to work together. I've had the benefit of doing that with some of the other staff over the years. It's going to take time to understand their work habits and for them to understand mine and that we'll get there, but not to expect it to all fall into place overnight. It's not going to happen.
How are you feeling about getting through the pandemic, coming in new in this role and the effect the pandemic had on state societies? What do you think has been a benefit or things that have pulled back for state societies that you might be looking to the future for innovation?
The pandemic has given us an opportunity to serve our members in a different way and potentially engage with them more or different than what we were doing. We obviously had to pivot everything to virtual. In 2020, we weren't holding any in-person events. Everything became virtual. There are some things that we won't go back to or that we will shift slightly. We may not go back to the number of in-person events that we had previously, but maybe the virtual events begin to become more and more compared to what we were doing previously.
We're looking at new ways when we can't get out in front of members at meetings across the state or meet face-to-face. We're looking at new ways to engage and talk with them through town halls and round tables. We're continuously looking for new ways to build those relationships. It's never easy, but it's certainly not easy to do when you don't have the benefit of a face-to-face interaction.
Internally, from an operational standpoint, we've gone to more of a flexible hybrid work environment. That's something that we will continue potentially long after the pandemic. It has worked well. It provides flexibility to our staff and a lot of firms. Businesses are doing that to remain competitive in the market. We're trying to offer as much flexibility to our staff to provide some balance to them. That's important to me because I didn't always do that in my career. If I can help them to achieve that, I certainly want to do that.
How are you noticing the effect on culture going hybrid from when you were all in the office?
When we went all out of the office for a couple of months and then started to come back into a hybrid model, everyone was very excited to be around other people after being at home by themselves for a couple of months. Now, we don't take for granted those opportunities when we have one day where everybody is in the office together and then we have smaller groups the rest of the week. I don't think we take for granted the fact that someone is down the hall from me and I can go have a face-to-face interaction with them. It used to be, "I'm not going to get up. I'll just send an email or whatever." Now, we want to get up, have that interaction and work together in person.
I like to close out with some rapid-fire questions. You pick a category. The categories are family, friends, money, spiritual or health.
Health.
Things or actions that I don't have that I want with my health?
I don't have a workout routine as a routine and I have no excuse for that. That's what my husband does for a living. I have an opportunity and someone to help me through that, but it's not something that I prioritize. I do it occasionally, but I never get in the habit. We all go through phases in our life and maybe eventually that will become a priority and it's not, but I wish I did have that routine.
I can tell you, as a yoga studio owner, it's the worst with family coming to you. Everybody else will come to yoga, come and take feedback, but if they come and I start training them, it's offensive. It's different.
We tried that early on in our marriage and decided it wasn't a good idea. I didn't need him as my trainer.
Things or actions I do have that I want, so something you want to keep?
My parents are in their 70s. They're very healthy. They have always lived active lifestyles and been good examples of eating well and taking care of themselves. I have good genes and good examples related to health.
Things or actions that I don't have that I don't want as far as my health?
I don't do things, eat and do excess drinking. I don't think I have any bad health habits.
Last one, things or actions that I do have that I don't want as far as my health?
The tendency to worry is terrible for your health, and I'm definitely a worrier. It always has been since I was very young, but I wish I didn't have that trait.
It's a natural human condition. Knowing when it's happening, that's the first step. Is there anything that you want to leave the readers with, a message or anything we didn't talk about, that you want to make sure people come away from this interview with?
What You Want: People should engage and consider membership in their professional associations.
It's the value of professional membership associations to your career. Whether you're a CPA or not, there's a professional association for almost any industry or profession that you might be in and the value that those organizations can provide to protect your profession. In our case, the CPA license is tremendous. I encourage people to get engaged with their professional associations and be involved.
A big part of what we do is to advocate for the CPA profession. While our advocacy efforts can benefit anyone who is a CPA, whether they're a member or not, we certainly have a louder voice the more members that we have. I encourage folks to engage and consider membership in their professional associations.
It's a good point. I once heard a speaker talking. There's an association for speakers and he was up against another speaker for a potential conference. He said, "They're not a member of our association." Do you in your industry expect people to support their associations? The important thing is to find your place of how you support it because the lobbying efforts and everything else, children and all other types of things that go on in the state societies, people don't even realize how much.
Especially in 2020 with the pandemic, there's so much going on that's affecting the business environment. With the CPA profession at large, there's never a better time to be a member.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I appreciate you coming on.
I appreciate it. Thanks, Amy.
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For our Mindful Moments with this discussion that I had with Kara Fitzgerald about her journey from the time when she was young to becoming the CEO of the Tennessee Society of CPAs, there are some great stories in here or life lessons that were helpful. One of them being when she was young and her mom was taking care of a lot of things around the house because her father traveled to other countries, and watching her mom take it in stride and make sure that everything got done. I believe from the stories that Kara talked about how important that has been in her own development in managing everything between work and life, and also still managing to move forward in her career as well.
What we talked about was, in the beginning, when she was a dancer growing up and how much enjoyment she got from dancing, her comfort level of being in front of groups rather than maybe talking one-on-one or being in small groups, and how she has had to push herself out of her comfort zone so that she can feel comfortable doing those things. It's important that we not only observe the things that we're good at but also observe the things that we would like to grow in.
It's not a negative to find the things that are maybe not our strong suit, but it's important that we do think about how we go about improving those areas of ourselves. Life is a journey. We're never in maintenance mode with what we do if we want to grow, learn and move into other areas in life. Sometimes we have to push ourselves out of our comfort zone.
In a lot of interviews that I've had, we've talked to people that are introverts and how they've had to push themselves from being an introvert to feeling comfortable in front of people and what things work for them. With this one, this was a hybrid. It's not necessarily an introvert but just that comfort level of not having a planned meeting or agenda or in a recital that you know what you're going to do for the dance rather than when you meet in smaller groups, it can be more organic. Sometimes that can be uncomfortable.
I know for myself that I definitely come off as extroverted. I'm a keynote speaker and I get on stage, but people are often mistaken that I want to be part of a big party. For me, my comfort level a lot of times is to be with smaller groups after I get off the stage or go to dinner rather than big events. I like the big events. I'll always have fun, but that takes more energy for me. It's important to understand what creates and attracts energy for us, and what we need to do in order to balance that.
In a lot of this discussion, she talked many times about getting out of her comfort zone or pushing herself. One being when she asked for the job that she wanted in a CPA firm that she identified as the right fit. The other one was when she went to the FICPA and called them when she wasn't hearing back from them to make sure that she got the role that she wanted. A lot of times, we will step back and wait for someone to reach out to us.
If we want something, it's understanding what's the worst that can happen if we ask the question. If we're okay with what's the worst that can happen, do it. Don't overthink, over-analyze and over-plan it. Do it and see what the result could be. The worst thing that happens is you don't get the job or the opportunity that you're calling about, but the best thing that can happen is getting the thing that you want. Not passing those by was a great example in her story as well.
I also liked her observation of understanding how important it has been to get into operations as a finance professional to truly understand what customers want and how to be a better internal partner to other people in your firm or a corporation so that you're delivering the information that people want. When we talked about her CEO at the Tennessee Society, identifying that she would be a great candidate to succeed him, he talked to her about it.
A lot of times, we have in our mind that someone can succeed us or they can move into another role, but we don't necessarily tell them so they can start thinking about the things that they need to do to prepare. Because he had that discussion with her, they were able to step back and say, "Here are the things that are my gaps in order to do that role. I need the opportunity to be able to explore that so I can do a better job."
All of these things were important lessons in transitioning in your life, career or whatever it is. Remembering that relationships and all the things that we need, it's not just us alone, but relationships are what helps us move into other things that we want to do. Stepping back now and thinking about, "What are those things that are your gaps? What relationships can you call upon to help you grow, learn and be able to achieve the things that you want to in your life?"
Important Links:
Boyd Search – Previous episode
About Kara Fitzgerald, CPA, CGMA, CAE
Kara Fitzgerald is President and CEO of the Tennessee Society of Certified Public Accountants (TSCPA), the premier professional association for Certified Public Accountants (CPAs) in Tennessee. She is responsible for carrying out the mission of TSCPA and works in partnership with the TSCPA Board of Directors and Council to develop and execute the Society’s strategic vision, always working to promote, protect and support the CPA profession in Tennessee. Additionally, she works with various committees and represents the membership with various governmental entities, including the Tennessee State Board of Accountancy, the Tennessee Department of Revenue and the Tennessee General Assembly.
An association executive with nearly 25 years of experience, Kara’s career in association management began at the Florida Institute of Certified Public Accountants, where she learned the value of a professional membership association. Kara then spent 10 years in various roles at the Tennessee Society of CPAs, most recently as Vice President – Operations, until she was named President and CEO in April
2021. Having spent her early career in public and private accounting, she understands the importance of protecting the CPA profession and maintaining its role as a trusted advisor.
Kara is a licensed CPA in the state of Tennessee and earned the Certified Association Executive (CAE) credential, which is the marker of a committed association professional who has demonstrated the wide range of knowledge essential to manage an association in today’s challenging environment. She also holds the credential of Chartered Global Management Accountant® (CGMA). Kara is a member of TSCPA, the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, the Tennessee Society of Association Executives and the American Society of Association Executives.
Kara earned her Bachelor of Science degree from Tennessee Technological University. She lives in Mt. Juliet, Tennessee with her husband and two children. She enjoys travel and spending time with her family.